Sacred Rebel: Episode 2-GUEST: BEN Z MUND COVID-19, Back to the Land, Water Witching, and more.


Ryan Ao interviews Ben Z Mund, a colleague in the media industry. Ben also does commercial photography and videography for clients like Nike and others. He is doing very well with his career in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis, unlike most people including Ryan. Topics discussed include how he sees this crisis inspiring people to go back to the land like the 60's-70's generation did. Also topics like Water Witching, Hyperloop Trains, Free Energy, Taurus Fields, Natural Building, and more. Links to some resources mentioned in the podcast:

Books mentioned: A Pattern Language:

Timeless Way of Building:

Anastasia Ringing Cedars of Russia :

Sample Read:

Worlds Most Extraordinary Home Portugal: BBC short teaser

and entire episode on:

Real Goods and The Solar Living Institute in Hopland, CA

You can find the audio podcast at:

You can listen on all the major podcast platforms with links to them here:

You can find Ben Z Mund at:


You can find Ryan Ao at:


00:31 you

01:29 hello

01:31 hey hey Ben you hear me yeah can you

01:36 write yeah yeah oh I put my headphones

01:39 on Oh should I do that as well first

01:43 sound um let me think I think yeah why

01:48 not okay that way we don't get any

01:54 feedback have you done a podcast before

02:01 I can't say that I did do an audio one

02:07 recently with Jeanette um she she

02:13 recorded she was doing that she has like

02:15 a weekly one with her friend or

02:18 bimonthly uh whatever the hell they want

02:21 to like well and uh see this works can

02:26 you hear me on this yes can you hear me

02:28 yeah perfect quiet okay um hi hello

02:38 hello hello

02:42 hello hello oh there it is okay cool let

02:46 me go in in my zoom recording really

02:48 quick and free up some space for the

02:50 recording I forgot that it will not

02:54 record to my cloud if it's full that's

02:57 someone who'd delete a bunch real quick

02:59 okay and delete okay

03:05 cool we're good to go who gave you that

03:08 wicked fade that was Taylor Matt fees

03:12 did you see I just posted a podcast last

03:15 night on the flip where he was giving me

03:18 this haircut while we're in a podcast

03:22 it's fun and I've got a video and I'll

03:25 be posting that to YouTube too so you

03:27 can see him like it's so fun you look

03:31 good I like the beard on you thanks yeah

03:34 I have never grown one before

03:36 what so this is the most beardy I've

03:38 ever been first time for a beard and

03:41 first time for a podcast with video

03:48 today well you know whatever feels

03:52 sacredly rebellious but um but I loved

03:54 your comment about how you felt like

03:56 people would be moving back to the land

03:58 and more more more because of coven 18

04:03 but uh yeah I mean as you know as you

04:06 might have you did you read at least the

04:08 show notes for the first episode No so

04:11 no worries well sacred rebel is my

04:15 opportunity it started out as a way for

04:17 me to just have a cathartic place for me

04:19 to kind of come out of a closet so to

04:21 speak about all kinds of truth theories

04:24 I call them and you know alternative

04:26 thought processes that are just not

04:28 talked about in the mainstream

04:29 alternative healing alternative

04:31 experiences like I wast or Forrest Eco

04:35 thirty that you know light just all

04:38 these different things that I'm really

04:40 into I've experienced I've researched

04:42 but I don't talk about to anybody

04:44 because it's just not like for example

04:47 like I worry in you know on a regular

04:52 basis if the things that I share

04:53 publicly will impact my

04:55 to get a job with Nike or whatever you

04:58 know like and at this point with covin

05:00 19 I've just been seeing so many people

05:02 becoming so much more brave and more

05:04 conscious that I'm just like you know

05:07 what I just want to follow my heart and

05:08 if this means that I get to share some

05:11 stuff that I finally share with people

05:14 and they realize that they feel the same

05:16 way then how cool is that you know and

05:19 you commented it so I'm like alright Ben

05:21 let's do this yeah I think that I think

05:25 sharing I mean sharing your quirky side

05:29 always well not always but oftentimes

05:33 will endear you to people you know

05:35 because cuz then your everybody has a

05:38 quirky side and otherwise things are

05:41 kind of vanilla on a flip side of course

05:44 like you know if you started spouting

05:47 things that were obviously like bad or

05:52 wrong or that kind of thing like

05:55 Bennet's then it's kind of like

05:56 questionable so I suppose you need to

06:02 play it safe a little bit that way or

06:04 yeah I mean if it turns out that you're

06:06 a huge racist that I split people should

06:08 know right right you know I mean good

06:12 even I mean so there's a black and white

06:13 area right there it's like yeah if

06:15 you're racist or being like a Hitler

06:17 then yeah that's gonna go over bad but

06:19 you know it's even been scary for me to

06:21 admit things like and that movie that

06:23 came out recently that caused quite a

06:25 controversy called Plan Demick um I

06:28 wrote about that and encourage people to

06:30 download it and I got horrible feedback

06:34 on that comment I was like oops so I

06:36 took that post down because I felt like

06:40 one of the comments was saying that I

06:42 was promoting misinformation that could

06:45 be harmful to others so I thought well

06:47 there's a good point I don't want to I

06:49 don't want to harm anyone so you know so

06:51 I'm learning that there's there are

06:53 limits to what is socially acceptable in

06:55 this truth Theory stuff you know so I am

06:58 I am planning to be careful but at the

07:01 same time if it's not gonna if it's

07:03 clearly not gonna cause anybody harm but

07:05 it opens up discussion that's healthy

07:08 all right I suppose but there's things

07:11 like for instance like queuing on yes

07:13 it's just total bullshit and everybody

07:15 yeah I totally think it is and the only

07:18 reason it's like of any interest is that

07:21 it's it's like watching a freaking plane

07:23 wreck train wreck whatever the ironist

07:26 yeah it's and and those kind of videos

07:29 are fed to you through YouTube's

07:33 algorithm because wow I wanna kick well

07:36 you've heard how YouTube changed their

07:38 viewing platform yeah a year to go right

07:41 so it doesn't it doesn't send you down

07:43 the path of like for me it's a lot of

07:46 it's like home repair or or like photo

07:50 based things and it goes from those two

07:53 like check out this crazy footage of

07:57 like the secret meeting between you know

08:00 whatever it'll go down that path and

08:02 it'll just get worse and worse because

08:03 it's like that's what people will keep

08:06 watching and then and that almost

08:09 entirely due to that algorithm it

08:12 promoted all this all right shit that's

08:14 come up oh can I say this is totally not

08:19 censored so yes that's part of like how

08:24 Q Anand came to be like oh my god

08:29 there's I mean there's so many weird

08:31 weird things out there that are like

08:33 that are only there because it's just

08:35 been spoon-fed to us yeah so what are

08:40 your thoughts on well first of all how

08:43 are you doing been during Kovan if we're

08:44 gonna talk about kovat I've been so

08:46 wondering about you because I don't want

08:49 to introduce you really quick to people

08:50 just so people know who you are and I

08:53 will do that through a pre-recorded a

08:55 little bit but um Ben you and I have

08:59 known each other for four five years now

09:01 something like that at least yeah

09:03 and we both come from the same town of

09:05 Santa Rosa so we have some mutual

09:06 friends some mutual experiences and you

09:11 showed this amazing art project in my

09:14 gallery called it was about Lewis and

09:18 Clark discovering rediscovering Portland

09:20 in the modern day

09:22 with a very very cute photography

09:25 project that you did and created a

09:27 calendar out of and so we we connected

09:29 through the photography world and over

09:32 the years we've we've come to know each

09:34 other more as you know people who have a

09:37 very similar mindset about life in

09:40 general very conscious open-minded

09:43 lovers of the natural world you know

09:46 stuff like that but then on the flip

09:47 side we also work in the corporate media

09:49 world like making photo photography and

09:52 video on a professional level and we've

09:54 even worked together professionally a

09:56 few times and so you're a friend of mine

09:59 who I'm constantly looking to - how's

10:02 business how's life what's going on in

10:05 that world and then on the flip loving

10:07 watching your social media channels and

10:09 the trips you take the marriage that you

10:11 the wedding you had out in California

10:13 that I just totally loved watching and

10:15 so I feel like we're a good fit for this

10:19 show because you're exactly the kind of

10:21 person I would see as somebody I would

10:24 love to open up to about this stuff

10:25 because in general I think I keep that

10:27 kind of that part of myself a little bit

10:29 hidden from a person like you because we

10:31 have a tendency to keep in touch about

10:33 work-related stuff and you know like I

10:36 was saying earlier I wouldn't want you

10:37 to know about so am i far out there

10:40 thinking's because I wouldn't want to

10:42 not get invited to a professional gig if

10:45 you were worried that I would be

10:46 spouting off conspiracy theories on the

10:48 job or something but on that note I do

10:54 think about you a lot during coven 18

10:56 and ironically you had a comment on my

10:59 post about the first sacred rebel

11:01 podcast and you said I think a lot of

11:05 people are going to be going back to the

11:06 land because they're Cova 19 and you

11:08 know that was really really interesting

11:10 for you to say Ben because here you are

11:12 a corporate photographer working with a

11:14 big client like Nike and other clients

11:18 that are huge and you are the one who I

11:23 know in this media world who's actually

11:25 staying busy you're the one in the

11:28 photography video world I don't know

11:29 anybody who's staying busy so that's

11:31 exciting to me that here that you're

11:32 doing well I'd love to hear more about

11:35 why you made

11:35 comment because if here you are person

11:39 that's you know very credibly successful

11:41 in the media world making a comment that

11:45 you think the co vid is gonna cause this

11:47 I would love to hear why you think that

11:49 yeah I don't know that was I gotta admit

11:54 it was kind of spur-of-the-moment

11:55 comment I mean I but I after talking to

11:59 people it seems like a lot of people are

12:01 considering moving back to the land we

12:04 throw our you we've been talking to

12:07 about it for at least a year at least

12:09 like buying something I mean I I grew up

12:14 I didn't grow up in Santa Rosa I grew up

12:15 in a little town called Willis

12:17 which is north okay and there was you

12:21 know it was quiet at night like I don't

12:27 think people in the city understand how

12:29 quiet it can be yeah and and and I also

12:36 talked to people that live in the city

12:37 and have gone out to the country or

12:39 camping or whatever and they're actually

12:41 like kind of weirded out and freaked out

12:43 about how quiet it is there's no white

12:47 noise yeah yeah I don't see you know I

12:52 gotta admit that I don't think that

12:54 unless you've lived in the country

12:55 before and you have some wild notion

12:58 that like you're gonna go pick up and

13:00 move out to land and homestead good

13:04 fucking luck cuz it's not easy to do

13:07 there's so many things that that you

13:09 have to do you need a bolt for one

13:12 little broken project you got to drive

13:15 into town and get it because you don't

13:18 have it right everything is more

13:21 expensive you're driving all the time

13:23 Wow good point you know you need to

13:27 drive to get you need to like you want

13:31 to go get groceries like you have to

13:32 plan that you know just like oh I forgot

13:34 milk I'm gonna walk to get it because

13:37 you do that cow which is a realistic

13:42 option if you're living in the land yeah

13:45 yeah I can see it being a

13:49 more available now that that sounds like

13:53 a lot of companies are gonna embrace

13:55 work from home more i got a facebook

13:58 i've heard facebook is wow my concern

14:02 and I gotta admit we're both

14:04 Californians but bunch of fucking

14:07 Californians leave it up here it's like

14:10 all their money and buying land up here

14:12 yeah for you and I can it's true and and

14:15 we are ones to admit that you know

14:17 Oregon is very attractive to a person

14:20 who loves nature yeah you know yeah for

14:24 sure and it's it with climate change

14:25 it's gonna be cooler and a lot like

14:29 maybe California was when we were living

14:32 there 20 or 30 years ago

14:33 well then they're saying that actually

14:35 they did a list of the top places to be

14:38 for climate refugees in Portland Oregon

14:40 was the number one you saw that yeah and

14:44 I think that was mostly based on racial

14:46 equality for opportunities for people of

14:50 minority status and lower income status

14:52 to find a place to be that they would be

14:54 included that they would be included

14:56 because Portland has all these very

14:58 progressive policies for you know

15:01 environmental justice and stuff like

15:04 that so I thought that was cool but it's

15:06 also because of the climate here it's

15:08 just perfect

15:09 yeah yeah well I think the other thing

15:12 that kind of but I'd bump up against you

15:14 about moving out somewhere is you don't

15:18 see your friends anymore like you like I

15:23 have some really good friends older

15:25 couple and they move down to Silverton

15:27 which you know if people don't know it's

15:30 it's maybe 45 minutes from Portland here

15:34 yeah and beautiful little town we see

15:37 them once a year I used to see them once

15:39 a month at least oh and that's what

15:42 happens because like if you live in the

15:44 city your life is your life is moving

15:46 faster if you're gonna go say out to the

15:51 country somewhere like you're not just

15:53 doing it in the afternoon and coming

15:55 back like you're going out for a couple

15:56 days or you're going out for the whole

15:58 day and be able to take a whole day off

16:01 and especially with people

16:03 it's like but you don't see your friends

16:06 anymore that moved to the country you

16:07 might think that you're gonna see people

16:08 and you may see a few but it's a

16:12 different it's gonna be a different life

16:13 yeah so our ideal situation that we talk

16:17 about is like well you know we own the

16:19 house here in Portland but would it be

16:21 nice to have like a big ol triplex

16:24 like somewhere close in and rent out

16:27 most of it and then like own land

16:29 somewhere and be able to like still

16:32 access it until we're ready to do

16:35 something out there yeah now okay so

16:39 that reminds me of the Anastasia ringing

16:41 cedar of Russia books have you heard of

16:42 those no you might like them and that's

16:45 actually one of the topics I wrote about

16:47 on my show notes but so here we go I'll

16:49 mention that a little bit

16:52 basically in Russia there's a huge Eco

16:56 village movement that started

16:57 encouraging people to do exactly what

16:59 you just said by these what they call

17:01 little daka's or gotchas I'm not sure

17:03 the Russian word and it's a plot usually

17:06 late an acre or less out in the country

17:09 usually about 45 to an hour away from

17:11 the city or more dependent but just

17:14 enough where they can get out into

17:15 nature but still be closely accessing

17:17 the city because what they do then is

17:19 they live in the city and they go out

17:21 and they start developing gardens and

17:23 maybe a small place to live and the week

17:25 on the weekends and then they eventually

17:27 move out there but it takes school years

17:29 usually to kind of or some of them never

17:32 move out there and they stay in the city

17:34 but they have a place on the weekends

17:36 where they can go be in touch with

17:37 nature grow their own food possible

17:39 living down in the city they harvest

17:41 bring it back to the city and you know

17:43 that was all sparked by when the fall of

17:46 communism happened people were broke in

17:51 Russia and they started getting really

17:53 thrifty and when these books came out

17:56 about encouraging people to do this they

17:59 blew up and now people have a way to

18:01 live more financially economical lives

18:04 by doing this and still live in cities

18:06 this is in the show notes I can check it

18:10 out well yeah just the name anastasia

18:11 ringing cedar of russia books okay yeah

18:14 if you google Anastasia ringing city of

18:16 there's ten books and if you even just

18:19 read a few chapters into the first one

18:22 you'll get a good just of it yeah

18:24 I will admit there's there's another

18:26 side to the books which you have to

18:27 understand which is that there was a big

18:30 question about whether the books are

18:32 true the guy who wrote the book claims

18:34 that he met this woman out in the

18:36 wilderness who lives off the land and

18:40 she's very spiritual and she's very

18:43 mystical and a lot of the things he

18:45 claims she said and did are very

18:49 mind-boggling you're like what is this

18:52 possible is this true get past that

18:54 because I think after many years of

18:57 savings not true well here's the thing

19:00 though and that's the thing like he even

19:02 says at the very beginning in the

19:03 foreword like the question is not

19:05 whether these books are true or not the

19:07 question is whether these books spark

19:09 your imagination about what is possible

19:11 and that's what I love about them

19:13 because after years of reading them like

19:15 sure of course when I was reading them

19:16 most of my mind was focused on is this

19:19 true but years later what stayed with me

19:21 are the ideas of what's possible and I

19:23 don't even care anymore whether it's

19:25 true or not yeah you know and it's if

19:28 it's like teaching us how to you know

19:30 spark our imaginations about living like

19:33 we're talking about in the future then

19:34 why not read these books you know yeah I

19:38 I think that it kind of reminds me of

19:43 talking to a lot of the my parents

19:48 generation who lived in a country back

19:51 you know in our our old area down there

19:53 and we'll it ya Ukiah

19:56 like the the a lot of them came out

19:59 during the whole back to the land

20:01 movement in the 70s yeah you know bought

20:03 land and cuz their thought was you the

20:07 world is not going the direction that we

20:09 want it to and and you know we're gonna

20:12 move to the country and make our own

20:13 community and a lot of them were really

20:16 successful and and I feel like well you

20:22 know the weed industry had a lot to do

20:23 with supporting them too in a lot of

20:25 places but so there were a lot of

20:28 artists making livings

20:30 way a lot of creatives out there and it

20:34 was it was spawned through an idea a

20:38 taste of magic the drug movement and the

20:43 you know the psychedelic movement like

20:45 and and uh that was I feel like it's

20:50 kind of cyclical that way and it feels

20:53 like maybe it might start happening

20:55 again for different reasons but uh

20:58 beautiful

21:00 that was the those are the people that I

21:02 grew up around and well that says a lot

21:05 about you you're so Zen and open-minded

21:08 and artistic that but yet you have this

21:10 other side of you that's very good at

21:12 business and you're you're technically

21:14 very proficient and like you create

21:16 these machines for these Nike shoots

21:18 that are like what know so it's like you

21:20 you balance both worlds really well and

21:22 I can see that yeah III you know we

21:26 always joked in the sustainable

21:27 communities that I lived and that our

21:28 kids were gonna be city people because

21:31 we're we we would be pushing so hard on

21:34 these kids to love nature and and of

21:37 course you know and love alternative

21:39 living of course kids tend to do the

21:41 opposite of what their parents do yeah

21:42 you might be a good example of that you

21:44 turned out beautifully what's she

21:47 leaning towards total total city girl

21:52 but she's she's excited about the

21:54 prospect of moving back to the land she

21:56 just says you know we have to have

21:58 friends around so that's interesting

22:00 that you brought that up

22:01 she's very social does she like nature

22:06 she loves nature as far as playing but

22:10 as far as appreciating you know getting

22:13 out to exercise and be in touch with the

22:15 natural that could she could care less

22:17 about that I might just come with age

22:20 great I hope so yeah but she know she

22:25 appreciates like grabbing a Daniel and

22:28 poufy and like goofing them or chasing

22:30 butterflies and creating a story about

22:32 the fairy that she's chasing or whatever

22:34 you know that that's what she enjoys and

22:37 I feel like her imagination goes wild in

22:39 nature and she doesn't even realize that

22:41 it's because it's nature so that make

22:43 happy yeah so when you lived you live in

22:51 Santa Rosa and then you live in Hawaii

22:53 for a long time right oh yeah but was

22:56 there community out there it was that

22:57 kind of a back to the land thing for you

22:59 it's actually kind of what got me into

23:01 the books that Anastasia books and yeah

23:03 cuz we were living basically on the land

23:06 with very little money all of us had

23:09 unique ways of making it work but mostly

23:12 just you know like in Hawaii it's so

23:15 easy to live like you don't need a house

23:17 you could live in it we literally lived

23:19 in a carport on pallets and I thought

23:23 the carport cost like what I don't know

23:24 they're like one hundred and fifty

23:25 dollars at Costco or something and

23:28 they're perfectly waterproof so and

23:30 they're huge we've taken those to

23:32 Burning Man okay yes yeah okay yeah so

23:36 they're great I mean in Hawaii the

23:37 weather is always perfect although it

23:39 does rain pretty hard during the day

23:41 sometimes and you have to kind of watch

23:43 out for black mold but we all had ways

23:46 of sharing techniques to avoid that and

23:49 is this the gardening there was just so

23:52 prolific you could grow all year round

23:54 you know so we were just like literally

23:57 doing kind of what we're talking about

23:59 but back in like what was the year it

24:01 was 2012 through 2015 and it's funny

24:06 been because I think at that time the

24:07 hippies like we were hippies full

24:10 disclosure and we were totally part of a

24:15 movement during that time in history to

24:18 kind of recreate what our parents were

24:20 creating in the 60s but I think it kind

24:24 of died down I think all of us kind of

24:26 got real about a lot of us had kids you

24:29 know and a lot of us were a little bit

24:32 homesick for the mainland and I think

24:34 most of us lasted about three years on

24:36 Kauai and then left mm-hmm

24:38 some of them are still hardcore doing it

24:40 but those are the far and few between so

24:43 where was there someone that bought land

24:46 and then you guys all lived out there

24:47 yeah so Jack I'm sorry jack

24:54 so you know the band's

24:56 Crosby Stills and Nash uh-huh so Nash

25:01 Graham Nash of that band who grew up

25:04 with John Lennon and stuff he has lived

25:07 on kawaii ever since he got famous

25:10 because it was kind of his escape and he

25:13 built this little kind of I don't know

25:18 bungalow heaven out in this mountainous

25:21 area of Hawaii and there's like all

25:24 these small little homes and then

25:26 there's gardens everywhere and they were

25:28 very they so they raised their son their

25:30 kids like that well guess what all of

25:32 all was it three or four of the kids

25:34 most of them moved to cities like New

25:36 York or San Francisco or LA but one of

25:38 them Jackson the youngest one the babies

25:40 stayed on kawaii and became the super

25:43 environmentalist hippie dude nice and so

25:46 he said dad all I've ever wanted from

25:49 you is just a piece of land and so his

25:52 dad's inheritance to him was a piece of

25:54 really really really rundown property at

25:57 Jackson's request because Jackson wanted

25:59 it to be relatable to other people so

26:02 they bought like a twenty five thousand

26:04 dollar piece of property which was I

26:06 think me it might have been more like a

26:08 hundred thousand actually now that I

26:09 think about it but still relatable you

26:11 know something that any of us could do

26:12 mm-hmm

26:13 and um I was just trashed it was like

26:16 like a dump it was basically a dump and

26:18 all overgrown with buffalo grass it's

26:20 like 12 feet tall and cuts you when you

26:23 walk through it and they've restored

26:25 that land into this Eden but that with

26:28 the help of us community living there

26:31 and you know it went through its growing

26:33 pains and a lot of us left partially

26:35 because of the challenges of living in a

26:37 communal setting like that but also

26:39 partially because we were just all going

26:42 in different directions

26:43 and so he's been kind of keeping that

26:46 going and I think he's he has more of

26:48 like a woofing mentality on it now do

26:51 you know what oh the living there's not

26:54 the like the sound meditation oh no no

26:57 the you know like yeah that's Rolfing

27:00 good job no willing workers on organic

27:02 farms ok and travel then get a job on an

27:06 organic farm I think he's I think

27:07 they're doing more of that I mean they

27:09 do have a few people that live there

27:10 with them but the this the people change

27:13 so they're kind of just leading the way

27:16 on Hawaii for an example of how to

27:19 create a permaculture paradise out in

27:22 Hawaii with the knowledge that he's had

27:24 his whole life of you know the plants

27:27 that grow well there and all that but

27:28 it's interesting you say that it's hard

27:30 to do that because you know another

27:33 thing that we haven't talked about is

27:34 that that knowledge is basically lost on

27:36 our generation yeah you know like what

27:40 time of year to plant and how to sprout

27:43 seeds correctly because they're all

27:45 different and you know all that stuff is

27:48 just we don't know it anymore

27:50 hmm so I think that's for me the big

27:53 scary thing about moving back to land is

27:55 like could we even do it could we even

27:57 grow food you know well huh what are

28:01 your thoughts on that

28:02 Josh I don't know I haven't done like

28:06 large-scale food farming before I think

28:09 have you even gardened yeah so so you

28:17 know how to grow like some lettuce and

28:20 you know being the basic peas or

28:23 tomatoes or yeah are you doing that here

28:27 in Portland well my wife has a small

28:30 garden here so I haven't been doing too

28:32 much yeah have you started that sense

28:35 kovin since quarantine Garden yeah I

28:41 think that there might have been like

28:44 some spurring of that but we had one

28:47 last year too so we do we do but yeah I

28:50 know some I certainly know some folks

28:51 that have like gone a little more

28:52 hardcore like went out and got chickens

28:55 and wow that whole bit which is funny to

28:58 me because like it's that whole thing

29:01 where people I like oh I'm gonna get

29:02 55-gallon drums in the storm with

29:04 rainwater or you could spend five cents

29:08 and fill a 55-gallon drum with municipal

29:10 water or you could spend you know $15 on

29:18 like a super organic giant chicken of

29:22 some kind and store it

29:24 because the feed and all the upkeep and

29:26 all that stuff for chickens I mean I

29:27 guess you get fresh eggs yes so and I

29:31 guess there's kind of an egg shortage

29:32 right now yes that's true you know it's

29:36 funny

29:36 so even going back to your original

29:38 topic like people will people who move

29:40 back to the lane because of covered you

29:42 know even just growing gardens I've

29:44 noticed like it's like the Victory

29:46 Garden movement but I like Covent

29:47 Gardens yeah that's true it I wish we

29:51 would kind of move back to the that what

29:56 was a depression-era style of like

29:59 trying to to grow your own food and yeah

30:04 I gotta admit like it's it's been nice

30:09 to walk around the neighborhood and

30:10 everybody's working on their homes and

30:13 their calmness and going for walks with

30:16 like all these happy dogs it's like oh

30:18 this is this feels like the community

30:20 that I want amen

30:22 doesn't it feel you know i it's funny

30:24 you said that it feels like it was when

30:26 we were kids doesn't it like people used

30:29 to get out and do stuff like that and it

30:31 stopped because of cell phones I think I

30:34 agree yeah yeah or just in general like

30:37 so much social media mm-hmm or I gotta

30:42 say to video games it's like kids will

30:43 just set down and play like that's

30:48 reward yeah or not just because our

30:52 parents are trying to keep him busy and

30:54 you know I have to say on that note I

30:57 feel like a lot of parents have been

30:59 struggling during kovat on what to do

31:01 with their kids because the schools are

31:02 closed yeah and we have the struggles so

31:06 hard with our daughter on the screen

31:08 time and we're just finding a lot of

31:12 parents are kind of trying to not shame

31:15 themselves or their kids over it too

31:17 much right now because it's such a

31:18 crisis and nobody knows what they're

31:20 doing anymore Oh

31:21 shaming them over using too much screen

31:24 screen time yeah but I think a lot of us

31:26 are you know okay we got to be careful

31:28 about this and we're conscious about

31:29 this but dang it what do we do yeah

31:32 because we're stuck inside and we're not

31:35 allowed to go out that much and it's

31:36 just been hard

31:37 you know so but I agree I mean it's

31:39 something that we do need to pay

31:40 attention to yeah you are you guys

31:45 planning to have kids Ben that's funny

31:47 we were just talking about that today

31:49 yeah we're like on the fence mostly

31:51 mostly off off the fence okay you never

31:55 know though it's true it's true what

32:00 would be an in what am I trying to say

32:05 that word what would be an encouraging

32:07 factor something a factor that would

32:09 make you want to do it one of the pros

32:12 have you done a pros and cons list I

32:14 think it for me it would be like a

32:18 severe environmental change you know

32:22 like in the positive cuz all right I

32:25 don't have too much faith and in the way

32:28 that our environments going right now

32:30 and and I would have a really hard time

32:32 bringing a kid into that world where

32:35 they just see the decline in our

32:36 ecosystem yeah what do you think like so

32:40 you're saying like something as positive

32:43 is like what happened to the skies in LA

32:44 during the shutdown maybe yeah this has

32:47 been great for the environment you know

32:49 it's like we really found out what who

32:51 the real disease is you know it's us the

32:55 problem what do you think that you know

32:58 it's funny you say that because I

32:59 believe if we keep this working from

33:02 home thing going we might see a

33:03 permanent reduction in air pollution

33:05 yeah yeah I would really I'd really

33:10 welcome that I think that would be

33:12 fantastic I I was getting excited even

33:15 though I think Elon Musk is kind of a

33:17 tool he's a weird man such a dick

33:22 product his product is amazing but dang

33:24 he's a weird man yeah when he was

33:26 talking about that Hyperloop thing and

33:28 that made me really excited about moving

33:31 back to the land because like if that

33:34 thing moves as fast as people say and

33:37 people can work from home as well like

33:41 then the sky's the limit on where we

33:42 could live because you know if it's

33:44 shooting out just using Oregon as an

33:47 example like if it if it goes out to

33:49 Idaho or it

33:50 you know West or even you know if it

33:54 goes between say here in Eugene yeah if

33:57 it takes lesson what were they saying

34:00 like half an hour yeah it was like 20

34:03 minutes to Seattle maybe half an hour -

34:05 Eugene it was like an hour from San

34:07 Francisco to LA or something it was yeah

34:10 something like that if it stopped

34:12 anywhere along the way like you could

34:16 live in that zone yeah and you could

34:18 work in Portland yeah and you could live

34:21 like you could live in Eugene and work

34:22 in Portland yeah

34:24 IBM easily yeah people who could live

34:26 early and then it would spread things

34:29 out a little bit yeah I don't know if

34:31 that's good or bad for the environment

34:32 yeah okay so you want to get into

34:35 something about transportation that I

34:36 believe and here's my chance to be a

34:38 sacred a rebel about it have you ever

34:40 looked into any of these ideas of

34:44 oppressed free energy devices or things

34:48 that the supposed industry has like

34:50 oppressed I've never seen one that's

34:53 real okay but have you heard about the

34:55 idea that oh yeah I've seen YouTube

34:57 videos pretend yeah they have some

34:59 spinning with like a battery hidden on

35:01 it yeah well when I was on kawaii do you

35:04 know who nassim haramein is yeah I've

35:07 met him a few times yep what you met him

35:09 where do you used to used to come to

35:12 some of that some friends of mine

35:14 through a lot so I hung out with that

35:16 guy quite a bit oh wow okay so I met him

35:18 on Kauai and went to his town where he

35:20 was researching and he walked me right

35:22 by the lab but he wouldn't let me in

35:24 where they were doing the research on

35:26 his free energy device so I believe that

35:29 there's something there dude have you

35:31 talked to him about his work in that

35:32 field no I talked to him mostly was that

35:35 like event horizon okay Wow thanks but

35:39 which is where there's an infinite

35:41 enlargement and an infinite smallness of

35:43 the universe right and we're kind of

35:44 right in the middle mm-hmm is that what

35:46 you were talking about generally yeah

35:49 yes are really interesting philosophy

35:51 that's based and his idea of science

35:55 right which is what I tend to lean

35:59 spiritually yeah yes sir beautiful agree

36:02 with everything that he says yeah

36:04 well that's beautiful I mean that's the

36:06 kind of stuff that I love hearing about

36:07 too on this podcast which I'm hoping to

36:09 talk more about is just leaning towards

36:11 something that maybe not be the

36:13 mainstream merit narrative and that's

36:15 beautiful yeah yeah I what go ahead you

36:20 were gonna say something about him oh I

36:22 was gonna say something about free

36:23 energy hmm I think that like to say that

36:26 there you can create something out of

36:27 nothing goes against like yeah that one

36:32 of the main principles you know like e

36:35 equals MC squared

36:36 like that's isn't that proven it's a

36:38 proven scientific sort of theory anymore

36:42 honestly I think it's it's it's the same

36:45 harriman that could answer that question

36:47 best because I think 'no sim has

36:49 actually solved an equation of e equals

36:52 MC square that hadn't been solved yet

36:56 according to him right have you have you

36:59 heard about that no yeah so he he

37:02 basically oh gosh I'm gonna get in the

37:05 territory where I studied years ago and

37:07 I can't remember anymore but he

37:08 basically solved for the equation of the

37:13 quantum physics part of e equals MC

37:16 square that hadn't been proven yet so

37:19 mathematically he he basically thought

37:22 outside of the box and kind of was able

37:24 to solve for that part and I think what

37:27 it all relates to Wareham is that what

37:30 you're talking about were physics you

37:33 can't break the law of physics what his

37:35 point is so it's interesting we're

37:37 talking about in the same because he

37:38 changed my mind about what you just said

37:40 the point is is that when you look at

37:42 math and physics from a spiritual

37:44 perspective that changes everything and

37:47 then these these ideas of like the torus

37:51 field have you ever seen that that shape

37:54 where the energy goes up around back

37:56 down and back up again yep folks so

37:59 they're saying that that's the

38:00 foundation for free energy and it in it

38:05 somehow fits within the laws of physics

38:08 because it's looking at physics in a

38:10 spiritual dimensional way and I think

38:13 the spiritual dimensional sacred

38:15 geometry is what causes

38:18 the infinite feedback loop does that

38:20 make sense

38:21 mm-hmm and so if you apply that to like

38:24 a spaceship for example then you can

38:28 basically create a bubble in space-time

38:31 which is part of the e equals mc-squared

38:34 equation and you can move through that

38:36 bubble infinitely and not run out of

38:40 energy and also you can super fast

38:43 travel and turn at speeds that are super

38:46 fast and not feel the G's because the

38:48 gravity there's no gravity or some or

38:50 the gravitational field is acts

38:52 different so when you're talking about

38:54 hyper loops I always think of like well

38:56 what about that technology being applied

38:59 if it's if it's there and if people like

39:02 Miss M are claiming they're working with

39:03 it you know yeah so I hope that that

39:07 comes out but he's poor guy he's just

39:10 like he says life has been threatened so

39:13 he has to be very careful about coming

39:15 out with it what he told me is that he

39:22 has been thwarted over and over and over

39:24 again and that you know of course his

39:27 life is in danger at any time because if

39:30 the if he if he takes it out to the

39:31 public in a way that harms the oil

39:34 industry then you know his life could be

39:37 threatened so he has to like mostly just

39:39 deal with them

39:42 trolling his work and causing him

39:46 setbacks financially and stuff like that

39:48 uh yeah I I support it but I don't

39:53 necessarily believe it gotta admit I

39:56 think I'm more of a cynic when it comes

39:57 to this stuff like I want to be able to

40:00 if Ike if he's hiding it can't see it so

40:03 yeah you know I mean like anything else

40:05 I'd be like I don't know man yeah well I

40:09 have a friend who was living on Kauai at

40:12 the same time we were and she's and she

40:15 used to work for Apple she has the

40:17 patent for the first either net card

40:20 built into the first Apple Computer so

40:22 she worked directly with Steve Jobs and

40:24 she went to UC Berkeley for engineering

40:27 and she's an interesting conundrum

40:29 because she confirmed to me that she

40:32 met miss him on kawaii and worked with

40:35 him in his lab and knows that the

40:36 machine exists and it is it works but

40:39 the problem is the application at the

40:43 level they're at right now wouldn't work

40:45 like it's like power Casio watch rather

40:49 than like a UFO alright so like the

40:52 Theory's been proven but the application

40:55 is not working right now and as an

40:57 engineer she was gonna help him apply it

40:59 because she went to India and did some

41:02 sacred journeying spiritual journeying

41:05 and while she was doing that journeying

41:06 she got a download for how to make it

41:09 work hmm but here's an interesting point

41:12 she went to work with the sim and after

41:16 you know a little while of them working

41:18 together she said his ego was getting in

41:21 the way and she couldn't deal with it

41:23 and I have heard that about miss him and

41:25 I experienced a little bit that myself

41:27 with him so she bailed on the project

41:30 and so I was like so what are you gonna

41:33 what are you gonna make your version of

41:34 this and she said well it's all about

41:36 funding and safety and so she was saying

41:39 the same things that Miss Emma was

41:40 saying is just like really hard to make

41:42 it happen yeah I mean why why hide it

41:46 you know like yeah why not like seed it

41:50 everywhere and let and let and

41:53 crowdsource it if it's really something

41:55 cuz that seems like good point he

41:57 doesn't strike me as the kind of person

41:58 that wants to just hold on all the money

42:00 from it right so well actually that's

42:03 kind of a that's what she had to deal

42:05 with with him the ego was about who gets

42:07 credit for the invention and she was

42:10 like oh come on so and she being a woman

42:14 felt his patriarchal energy was a little

42:19 bit off and he's also in well I'm not

42:22 gonna go there yeah never mind I was

42:24 gonna say something else I won't say you

42:27 have to cut all this out yeah yeah he's

42:32 he's a really really sweet guy from what

42:34 I know and what I but like as all of us

42:36 he has his issues you know and III

42:38 witnessed some of them and what did you

42:41 think when you met him did he seem he

42:43 got a sweet

42:46 yeah he he seemed very sweet I didn't

42:50 see the ego some okay but he was doing

42:53 mostly like he would do a talk yeah you

42:57 know so we'd have a bunch of people get

42:58 together yeah I'd like a like a weekend

43:00 yeah get away

43:02 and then he'd do a talk about yeah so I

43:05 filmed one of his talk and ended up

43:07 doing some video work with him and his

43:08 team and that's why I ran into some

43:11 problems a little challenging on that

43:14 project but he you know he's not on

43:18 kawaii anymore I think he's like he's on

43:21 the Big Island I think huh last I heard

43:24 he moved and I think he kind of went

43:29 deeper into secrecy at that point cuz

43:32 whatever happened was not good why he

43:34 had to leave Hawaii you think you'll

43:37 ever move back there you know it's funny

43:40 to us that so we've always had the dream

43:43 of having like a dual life where we like

43:46 winter in Hawaii and then like summer in

43:50 the Pacific Northwest but I don't know

43:53 if we'll ever move back there unless we

43:55 had the financial resources to do that

43:57 and right now with this situation we

43:59 don't we don't know what's gonna happen

44:01 in the future yeah how is this impacted

44:03 you workwise well it's interesting so

44:06 when the quarantine started happening we

44:10 were financially doing better than we've

44:12 ever done we had more clients I actually

44:14 couldn't even keep up with the work I

44:16 was so busy and I was starting to hire

44:19 it out and then all of a sudden it just

44:20 went crash off a cliff like every single

44:24 client canceled yeah and I was even I

44:27 was even getting asked for some refunds

44:29 and we were like oh man we're gonna go

44:32 into debt giving these refunds so like

44:34 we worked it out so we didn't have to

44:36 get any refunds by um you know

44:38 rescheduling pivoting the projects and

44:40 we're scheduling and stuff further down

44:42 the road and so we've got you know our

44:45 plate full down the road but right now

44:47 we actually still had a lot of projects

44:49 that needed to finish so I've been

44:50 working solid for the past two months

44:52 just finishing work but with no pay

44:55 because they've already paid for it and

44:57 no new deposits

44:59 coming in so it's been stressful and

45:01 then so we applied for that all the

45:03 government assistance you know and we

45:05 didn't we in it we just got a lot of the

45:07 other day we're not getting any of it

45:08 really yeah I don't I don't know why I

45:11 mean well we do know why they said that

45:12 it's only for for employees like you

45:16 have to have employees that's the only

45:18 reason that's the only way you can get

45:20 the SBA loans right now and as an a

45:23 self-employed business owner I have

45:25 contract people that work with me not

45:27 employees that's crazy I have a friend

45:29 that doesn't have employees how will you

45:34 get him in touch can I get in touch with

45:35 him yes I want it right who is it I'll

45:39 put you in touch with him okay cool yeah

45:41 so what the letter we got just said that

45:43 the payroll documentation that we

45:46 provided did not support the amount that

45:48 we were claiming meaning I don't know

45:52 but I think we didn't do it right

45:53 because we gave them like like proof

45:56 that we had paid them for our bank

45:58 account but not like payroll we don't

46:00 have we don't have payroll

46:01 yeah there's up their subcontractors

46:02 yeah so we think that's what went wrong

46:05 oh you were trying to get money for your

46:08 subcontractors and for me because we

46:11 went there you can't get money for your

46:12 subcontractors that's probably okay and

46:15 then the Oh MPA the Oregon media

46:18 professionals Association remember that

46:20 I used to be okay we just joined right

46:25 before the pandemic and so then they had

46:27 a class on how to get this government

46:29 assistance for you know most of us media

46:31 makers who are self-employed and the one

46:33 thing that I took away was that as a

46:36 self-employed owner of a company you can

46:38 qualify for paycheck protection program

46:40 as long as you have proof that you take

46:43 a paycheck yeah but we don't have proof

46:46 that we took a paycheck so we just gave

46:47 them our bank account records and that

46:49 didn't work yeah yeah all the more

46:53 reason to be like super tight with your

46:55 records and stuff you know yeah I really

46:58 I really feel like switching to a

47:03 corporation where I get like a paycheck

47:06 has made a huge difference in how I save

47:08 money

47:08 that's cool so you do that yep Oh bring

47:12 it yeah

47:12 pay myself by bimonthly marry and then

47:17 since I'm an employee it's easier to

47:19 keep record of that kind of thing I mean

47:22 you can't do it for contractors because

47:23 it would be like I mean for instance it

47:26 would be like Nike getting funding so

47:30 that it can just pay us to not work you

47:33 know for them yeah that's like so well

47:37 and you work for Nike too and I know

47:38 well first of all it was you and in my

47:41 friend from story gorge Sean O'Connor he

47:46 was a video producer too and both of you

47:49 have been working for large companies

47:51 like he works with REI and other big

47:54 outdoor companies like that and doing

47:57 video work and so he and you have both

47:59 created I think well he created an LLC I

48:02 think what did you create I've an escort

48:05 I had an LLC okay

48:07 and both you and he had told me at one

48:09 point that you were taking owner draw

48:11 paychecks and so I was really moved by

48:14 that but I've never really had the

48:18 motivation to really get that going

48:20 until this and so you don't have to

48:22 convince me anymore I'm definitely gonna

48:23 getting that going yeah it's important

48:28 and so okay so bye on that note we've

48:31 one of the things we've been wondering

48:32 about you is what are you doing now for

48:35 work

48:36 how are you just continuing the same

48:38 work you've been doing or is it changed

48:39 pretty much yeah well I I can't get into

48:45 too many specifics just for safety's

48:47 sake but like I've been doing like very

48:50 pared down shoots kind of like how I

48:52 used to do them yeah

48:54 where there's virtually no one on set

48:57 and so and in a way that if there is

49:04 someone like a stylist there that we're

49:06 staying separate and we don't touch the

49:08 same things and if there's a model there

49:12 like I'm not anywhere near them and so

49:16 it's kind of all sectioned off and since

49:19 I since I have done all the teching

49:21 myself and used to shoot solo and I and

49:25 I understand

49:26 technically very well how to do both

49:29 video and photo just maybe not very very

49:34 not easy to do it to do it all by myself

49:37 yeah like then I've been able to kind of

49:42 keep the regular thing going that way

49:44 pretty stable clients yeah you do and

49:47 you know one of the things that even the

49:49 people that I know in this industry who

49:51 have stable clients is a lot of them are

49:52 more Hollywood oriented and Hollywood's

49:55 just shut down because of not being able

49:57 to figure out how to get back on set so

49:59 that's awesome you almost seem like

50:00 you're leading the way in that that's

50:01 great

50:02 yeah they in fact one of my clients like

50:05 used shoot that I did as a template for

50:08 how to do all shoots so there's like

50:12 screen shots of gloves that's great wow

50:17 that's so cool so you really aren't

50:18 setting an example see that's the kind

50:20 of innovation that you've always shown

50:22 me you're really being innovative in

50:25 this industry right I think that's

50:27 what's so fun about it it's like it

50:28 comes back to also like living off the

50:31 land awful and but on the land it's like

50:34 you you you have to innovate and you

50:38 have to if this doesn't work what else

50:41 is gonna work right what's the most

50:42 efficient way to do this yeah and it's

50:45 just like if you're doing carpentry or

50:46 doing photography just working with your

50:49 camera it's like you understand after a

50:53 while like this is the most efficient

50:55 process but if this breaks here's my

50:58 alternatives that I can do

51:00 okay well it's managing your time it's

51:03 managing your equipment it's

51:04 understanding like replacements or

51:06 additions and when you live in the

51:11 country or you live on your own out in

51:14 the woods your whole life is that way

51:16 it's not just your camera it's not just

51:18 your your job it's like oh we don't have

51:21 any water this is what's wrong how do we

51:25 temporarily fix it until we can really

51:27 fix it and it's managing your whole life

51:31 that way

51:31 yeah and so moving moving that into a

51:36 career for me was a little bit easier

51:40 than

51:40 because I was a I was living in the

51:43 country and I was I was a well driller

51:44 you know that's right that's right I

51:47 forgot you had that background that's a

51:49 very manual laborer background yeah and

51:52 to bring that little bit of mysticism

51:53 into it too I was also a dowser meaning

51:56 that like oh that's wheat we wished

51:59 water where water was underground and uh

52:02 yeah so like what so yeah yes say wait

52:08 we back up you've told me this before

52:10 but like for the sake of the audience

52:12 how does what's the spiritual aspect of

52:15 that well I don't think there is a

52:18 spiritual aspect of it apart from like

52:20 well my I guess my personal spiritual

52:23 belief is that there isn't like any

52:26 magic out there it's just stuff that we

52:28 haven't experienced yet you know it's

52:31 like beautiful for instance like the

52:33 aboriginals are at least you know when

52:36 they're living naturally out on the land

52:40 like our adept at finding water like

52:42 they can find it intuitively

52:45 yeah and we're mostly water like it

52:48 shouldn't be hard for us to key in on

52:50 where there is water in the ground and

52:53 so when you're doing things with sticks

52:56 or willow branches trying to which water

52:58 you really just set some we would use

53:04 brazing rods which are like kind of thin

53:06 copper rods they're like maybe to be

53:09 down like two feet long and you bend

53:10 them like a little gun you know like

53:12 this and you you put them in your hand

53:14 and they come up and they go out and you

53:17 hold them kind of like a gun with your

53:19 thumbs out and then when they would

53:22 cross this way we're walking over a vein

53:25 of water and then we might gonna come

53:27 back out but so you would hold them

53:30 lightly so they can move you know yeah

53:31 like a stiff breeze would push them in

53:34 okay but whoa my it's not like they're

53:37 moving magically like you you may not

53:41 know it but you're allowing them to come

53:43 in and it's because your body is in tune

53:46 with where there's water like I remember

53:49 coming across some huge Springs you know

53:51 like that would just it'd be a dry hill

53:53 full of me

53:54 and you come up on a spring like we did

53:58 one with Kendall Jackson you know that

53:59 winery yes and it was just this hillside

54:04 of maple and then there was like a 600

54:08 gallon a minute

54:09 well head just like spring head coming

54:12 out of the ground scuffing free flow no

54:14 pump just like wow starting a

54:17 decent-sized Creek like right there and

54:19 before he even got to it like you could

54:23 feel it like you know like it felt a

54:26 little cooler yeah but like there was

54:29 this sense of water and that's what I

54:34 think dowsing is you know I've never

54:36 paid attention to that it's like your

54:39 body is obviously in tune to things that

54:42 like you're not always consciously aware

54:44 of and wow you know so okay so it's not

54:48 like okay so you know how okay I'm gonna

54:50 get in a little New Age you hear but you

54:52 know the Ouija board there's two there's

54:55 two very similar it's okay so there's

54:57 two ideas I've heard about that one is

54:58 that it really is spirits or to that

55:00 it's your muscles having micro movements

55:03 and you're actually intuiting you're

55:06 just using intuition and allowing your

55:08 muscles to kind of guide the Ouija board

55:11 and so if you're in touch with anything

55:13 it's just it's happening through

55:15 muscular movement rather than a

55:16 spiritual hand moving it yeah okay yeah

55:24 cool so people would say that's magic

55:29 200 years ago right or not you're like a

55:32 witch

55:33 yeah but then maybe a hundred years from

55:35 now they're gonna be like oh like your

55:38 body is in tune with water like you're

55:41 just moving the sticks a little bit

55:43 unconsciously and and it's like science

55:46 proves spirituality there in a way yeah

55:50 yeah it's like those people so many

55:52 Native people are way more in tune with

55:54 their surroundings and we are and and to

55:57 be able to like I'm sure if you asked an

55:59 Aboriginal like they'd be like well I

56:01 just know it's here because I feel it or

56:04 whatever it might be you know or I know

56:06 that like when I smell this plant in the

56:08 one area that there's probably water and

56:10 they wouldn't even necessarily be

56:13 conscious of the signals yeah it's what

56:17 drives them in their core and they just

56:19 know you know yeah so it's interesting

56:22 too because do you know like those

56:25 things like there's a there 13 when is

56:28 it the 13 tribal elder grandmother's who

56:32 have gone around doing some sharing

56:33 around the world have you heard about

56:34 them there there's 13 grandmother's from

56:37 different tribal cultures across the

56:39 world so they their cultures I've never

56:41 been in contact with each other and the

56:43 thing that's so amazing about them is

56:45 they all share the same wisdom the same

56:47 knowledge base they're tapping into

56:50 something and they all have the same

56:53 thoughts and beliefs and one of the

56:56 things they said together as a

56:57 collective these elder grandmother's

56:59 have now gotten together and traveled

57:01 and one of the things they spoke to I

57:03 think in the late 80s or early 90s

57:05 before cellphones came out is they they

57:08 predicted that we would soon in the very

57:10 near future be able to send our thoughts

57:13 to each other through the air but what

57:15 they were describing with cell phones

57:16 and so at the time we might have thought

57:19 oh that's magic that's weird but now we

57:22 just go oh it's the cellphone so you

57:24 know like and back in the day like if

57:26 you ask somebody a hundred years ago

57:28 about some of the things that we have in

57:31 this world today they would be like

57:32 that's crazy that's know you know so I

57:34 think what you're talking to you about

57:35 the hundred years from now is

57:37 interesting too because one of the

57:39 things that we'll know a hundred years

57:40 ago a hundred years from now that right

57:42 now we consider magic or whatever you

57:45 know yeah yeah for sure yeah I think

57:49 people a lot of time were burnt at the

57:51 stake for being witches when they were

57:52 just a little bit more in tune with

57:54 something I love that and that's so

57:56 relevant to this podcast too because I

57:58 think what I'm trying to do is open

58:00 people up to a little bit of that you

58:02 know that thinking that hey you know a

58:04 lot of these topics are not witchcraft

58:07 actually we're talking about yeah like I

58:10 mean and that's a very practical example

58:11 water witching wow so were you what was

58:15 your percent accuracy on that I wasn't

58:18 very good my the guy that I worked for

58:20 was a lot better than me

58:21 okay and he was good enough that like I

58:24 he stayed in business and when I did my

58:27 own thing I couldn't do it okay you know

58:29 and so yeah that's amazing that somebody

58:33 could just do that in for a living I

58:35 love that people were doing oil dousing

58:40 as well and making a living I don't know

58:43 how much of a living at it as well where

58:45 they would use a pendulum and they would

58:46 kind of like they go up this side of the

58:49 map and get this line and then they'd go

58:52 down this side of the map and get this

58:54 line and find that cross-section you

58:56 know and the pendulum would help them

58:58 know where the yester the know was right

59:00 Wow yeah that's you know that's a tool

59:03 that's used in a lot of new age healing

59:05 stuff so interesting my wife has

59:09 actually used a pendulum before I think

59:10 and you get just like a simple yes or no

59:12 to a question yeah it's very easy to get

59:15 it to go horizontally or circular you

59:18 know like it's it's just micro movement

59:20 so like you said micro muscle micro

59:22 muscle yeah yeah and do you think that's

59:25 kind of similar to what you're dealing

59:27 with with the witching - micro muscle

59:28 yeah I think it's just a tool to to get

59:32 to get you to tell to get your body to

59:35 tell you what what it's feeling it's

59:37 like a must like what are they muscle

59:39 testing have you ever had you have done

59:40 yeah yeah we've been talking about that

59:42 lately uh-huh yeah

59:44 my favorite muscle testing one is this

59:46 and it really works we call I call it

59:48 the fluffy pillow test so I put my hands

59:51 out like this and I have a yes-or-no

59:52 question like should I go to the store

59:54 right now and during the crisis and then

59:56 I'm like okay and I just feel in the

59:58 other my arms drop or if there's like

60:00 kind of like it feels like a fluffy

60:02 pillows floating my hands and if there's

60:04 a fluffy pillow floating my hands that's

60:06 a yes and if they just drop that's a no

60:08 huh totally works what kind of questions

60:11 do you ask besides like grocery store

60:14 stuff you could anything honestly but I

60:16 tend to use it more for like guidance

60:19 for right now just like is this is going

60:22 out yes or no or is you know is buying

60:25 this thing a yes or no or what you know

60:27 just more practical stuff I try not to

60:30 do it like am I gonna earn a million

60:31 dollars because that's

60:33 probably not yet probably not gonna be

60:35 accurate but yeah so Ben I think the the

60:42 cool thing about again tying in to what

60:45 we're talking about the water witching

60:46 really ties in the back to the land is

60:48 that a skill that people could use to

60:49 help them find water on the property

60:51 maybe it'll tell them that's in the

60:54 ground somewhere but it's the real work

60:56 is getting it out of there Oh true right

60:59 drilling a well next right yeah yeah

61:03 that's cool

61:04 and then it you know of course it's like

61:07 Oh everybody gonna move out there and

61:09 drill wells like Oh true that would that

61:13 would affect the water table wouldn't it

61:15 it might yeah well you know another

61:18 thing I think a lot of people are

61:19 practicing the water catchment because

61:21 that's an alternative you know I so

61:24 funny I love the idea of water

61:26 catchments because you know in Tucson

61:27 Arizona we had some friends actually

61:30 think Brad oh what's his name

61:32 can't remember his last name but there's

61:34 this guy Brad who's like this

61:35 permaculture expert and he really

61:38 pioneered water catchment systems that

61:40 are very unique in Tucson Arizona

61:42 because they get like flash floods there

61:44 it like rains really hard a few times a

61:46 year and then the rest of your is like

61:47 super dry oh but they prove that you can

61:50 catch all the water that you need in for

61:52 the year in those flash flooding seasons

61:55 okay and here's larger storage than 50

61:59 55-gallon drums I take it I think so

62:02 yeah and and there's like I think

62:04 they're more like those those huge

62:07 plastic ones that are the size of a room

62:09 you know yeah yeah we used to install a

62:11 lot of those okay and like people can

62:14 they've taught people how to live the

62:16 whole year off of one or two of those

62:18 full and I think you either put them

62:21 next to your house or underground and

62:23 you know you have a pipe coming off your

62:26 roof into those and and I think the

62:29 crazy thing is it was so successful it

62:33 threatened the water municipality and so

62:36 they started making people get permits

62:38 to have those and pay money to have

62:40 those because they were like not making

62:42 money off the water bills anymore

62:46 you think they'd want to like lessen the

62:49 strain on the system

62:50 I know right ooo and then there was

62:52 another thing there was like if your

62:56 water catchment was over a certain size

62:58 they would make it you couldn't get a

63:00 permit because they were claiming that

63:01 you were catching too much of the water

63:03 and it wouldn't go into the water table

63:04 and then they couldn't sell the water

63:06 hmm so you're taking it back from them

63:09 yes you're like taking too much water

63:11 it's like wow this is like something

63:13 that was like a real thing and like a

63:16 threat and so it works you know water

63:18 catchment so I think that's a good I

63:21 think you know honestly for me my dream

63:23 would be to build a living roof and

63:25 catch water from their living roof

63:27 because the one thing that I love about

63:30 water is that it's been filtered through

63:32 the ground and it grabs a lot of

63:34 minerals after come falling out of the

63:36 sky but water catchment off of a roof

63:39 what's it catching bird poop like I

63:41 don't know if that's enough minerals so

63:43 I I think the idea of a living roof is

63:45 cool because at least you're still

63:46 having the water seep through some earth

63:49 and then through the pipes and then into

63:52 your can here ya know if I ever do it

63:54 that's what I would do Oh that'd be cool

64:01 I like that the idea for me would be to

64:04 build like a hobbit hole home so

64:06 underground and then your your roof

64:07 would be the hill and it's built into

64:09 you yeah my wife's parents look down and

64:12 see ranch well they just moved up here

64:14 that they have a neighbor who has a

64:16 house like that it's like kind of built

64:18 into the hillside and they have a living

64:19 roof and there's like deer walking

64:21 around on their roof oh my god like

64:23 peeking into their skylight gosh maybe

64:27 like so it'd be weird to see us a deer

64:29 up like looking down on you I love it

64:33 that's really cool

64:34 oh you're getting might see now these

64:36 are my these are the talks where my

64:37 heart gets explosively happy alternative

64:41 natural housing oh man I love it

64:44 that's so cool that you are into that

64:45 too yeah it's read a book called a

64:48 pattern language oh god I've heard of

64:51 that now I'm gonna type it into Amazon

64:52 right now yeah that's a really good one

64:54 you know Kyle's awesome right now -

64:56 really oh thank you for saying Powell's

64:59 they have a I recommend that I think

65:02 you'd enjoy it it's a thick book but

65:06 it's really easy to skim because it's

65:10 got like highlighted kind of broken down

65:15 descriptions on each page kind of about

65:17 what it's saying and it starts out

65:20 there's actually two books there's a

65:23 timeless way of building and then

65:24 there's a pattern language a pattern

65:26 language which I prefer a lot more it's

65:29 a little bit less esoteric okay and it's

65:33 really just about like community and Wow

65:36 then it gets into building and then it

65:38 gets into just like aesthetic building

65:41 for humans you know I think you'd really

65:45 enjoy it and it it has a lot to do with

65:49 community and this is the community part

65:55 kind of like the barn raising idea yeah

65:58 it is a little bit it's not talking

65:59 about like bringing people together to

66:01 date community it's like this is what

66:02 would support a healthy community and

66:04 the aura talks about like having like in

66:06 a city structure like having like

66:08 fingers of land that come through the

66:10 city you know or easily access land and

66:15 oh and that would help migratory animals

66:17 too right

66:18 like being able to walk through the city

66:19 blocked by a wall of asphalt very

66:24 European oh that's cool well you know

66:27 that's interesting that you say that Ben

66:29 thank you for sharing that yeah when we

66:31 flew over Europe into Paris and then out

66:33 of Paris I think we flew out of Paris

66:36 over England so we got the at a very low

66:38 altitude see both France and England it

66:42 was amazing to see the pattern of the

66:44 land and the cities and the development

66:46 and how different it is in America well

66:50 okay so in America you have these

66:51 massive open spaces that are just like

66:54 almost States wide and then in between

66:56 the states you have a few mega mega

66:58 cities right and then the only thing you

67:00 see in between is like farmland was like

67:02 one house on it and the poor lonely

67:04 farmer right or maybe maybe a tiny

67:07 little community but it's still built

67:08 like a city in in Europe and you might

67:12 have seen this from there

67:13 like you see little villages everywhere

67:16 and it's very rare to see a big city

67:19 like you've got Paris or you've got

67:21 London and then the rest of the country

67:23 is villages and the villages are not too

67:26 far apart you know there may be at the

67:30 most like a day's walk but like I'd say

67:33 most of them are even closer than that

67:34 they're like probably you know hour to

67:36 two hour walk and and you can tell they

67:38 were built like that from when people

67:40 actually had to walk to the neighboring

67:41 village you know and then everything in

67:44 between his beautiful land or for like

67:46 strips of forest or a river or you know

67:49 and it's just like so different than

67:51 America and it really it makes sense you

67:54 know yeah yeah feels much more human

67:56 yeah much more manageable when we were

67:59 in Portugal a couple years ago we took

68:03 the train up and it was just like there

68:05 was there was a couple on there who

68:08 looked like we kind of assumed they were

68:10 visiting their kids you know and like

68:13 from the southern part of Portugal up to

68:15 the north and it's just so easy you know

68:18 they they just like wheeled their

68:20 suitcases onto the trains that there got

68:22 off and they were there wasn't like wow

68:24 it was cheap it was easy it was fast

68:27 yeah it was a real human way of travel

68:30 mm-hmm and yeah people like really

68:36 figured it out there over the years and

68:39 and then they were there cities were

68:40 built around walking and horses not

68:44 1950s cars the rain go down the highway

68:47 to the mall rank right yeah I mean it's

68:53 funny you mentioned Portugal because

68:55 right around the time you were in

68:57 Portugal I'd watched that Netflix show

69:00 its beautiful homes or something like

69:02 that the world's most amazing homes and

69:06 so one of the episodes was all about

69:07 homes in Portugal oh cool yeah it's

69:11 beautiful you might enjoy it and it's

69:12 talk about eco homes I think one of the

69:14 ones they did there was like a hobbit

69:17 ish style home in the forest what's the

69:20 show called oh gosh I'm gonna look it up

69:22 right now it's like the world's most

69:24 amazing homes I think on Netflix

69:26 and there's a Portugal episode each

69:29 episode is a different country and and

69:33 they feature one home the world's most

69:35 extraordinary homes it's what it's

69:38 called okay and so yeah there's a let's

69:41 see episode season 2 episode 1 is

69:43 Portugal

69:44 so I'm putting I'm building a little

69:46 list of links that including your show

69:47 notes by the way okay

69:49 so we'll put some of these things in

69:50 dice if you have a water witching book

69:52 we should put that in there I wish I had

69:54 I gotta get this book back from a friend

69:57 of mine that it was really cool it was

69:59 like someone in the 70s sorry this is

70:03 super off track it's their crack home in

70:05 mendel someone in the 70s had

70:08 interviewed all these old-time

70:12 bootleggers who used to like run whiskey

70:15 down to the Bay Area Wow and interviewed

70:18 all these new wheat growers so it's like

70:20 these two bootleggers of like different

70:24 generations wow that's cool

70:28 you you know you live in a very

70:30 fascinating part of the country to me

70:31 you know I went on that bike ride for

70:33 this movie right here within reach where

70:36 Oh remember that project I bicycle 6,500

70:41 miles around the u.s. to visit a hundred

70:43 Cecina member you talking about that

70:44 yeah well we started in Willets at the

70:48 solar living Institute oh yeah and we

70:51 interviewed the founder of that which is

70:54 God what's the name Oh include it in

70:59 this show denotes yeah John John there

71:02 you go John instead - I gotta give him

71:07 props right now founder John Shaffer

71:13 John Shaffer good job so he's kind of

71:16 one of those people he but he was the

71:18 original bootlegger of solar panels so

71:21 he bought solar panels from NASA because

71:24 they were living on the land but they

71:26 you know coming from San Francisco I

71:28 think I drilled as well by the way did

71:31 you really did that's awesome so you

71:35 know him yep oh yeah he's good friends

71:37 with a lot of my friends down there of

71:38 course of course he's actually

71:40 have one friend who's good friends with

71:43 us sim and with John oh my god

71:46 okay so then tell me if this story is

71:48 correct because what I remember might be

71:50 different one than what's actually

71:51 correct but what I remember him telling

71:54 us is the reason solar Living Institute

71:56 real Goods even was founded was because

71:59 they had gone back to the land to just

72:01 like you've been talking about what the

72:03 people in Willets I think he came from

72:05 San Francisco I could be wrong but um he

72:09 was um no it wasn't San Francisco I

72:11 don't know oh you don't know okay but he

72:13 he had been like he'd really liked

72:15 baseball and watching it on TV and they

72:17 really liked ice cream and while they

72:19 were building their little community

72:21 land situation experiment they had

72:27 craving real real cravings like

72:29 withdrawals of baseball on TV and ice

72:33 cream so he and his wife figured out

72:35 they they took the battery from their

72:37 beetle at their bug and hooked it up to

72:41 their VW bug and they hooked it up to

72:43 their TV and were able to watch games

72:46 that way but their battery kept dying

72:47 and they had to deal with all that so he

72:50 you know he just literally contacted

72:53 NASA and said can I buy a solar panel

72:55 from the space stuff that you do that I

72:58 was like in the 1970s and so they sold

73:01 they sold him one and he was able to

73:03 like keep his battery charged and so he

73:05 was so blown away by that that he asked

73:07 him if he could start selling them and

73:10 he worked out something with them where

73:12 they would sell him the old space solar

73:16 panels or something Wow and then he

73:18 basically helped pioneer the

73:20 consumer-driven solar panel market

73:24 because of these withdrawals he was yeah

73:28 that's great god he has a really nice

73:30 spread now down there cuz he sold that

73:32 business a long time ago they moved down

73:35 to the hotland

73:37 yeah the he opens up a really big one

73:39 down at Auckland yeah that's the solar

73:41 living Institute and real good now it's

73:44 like kind of like weed dispensary and

73:47 solar is it real sound there yeah he's

73:50 got a great spread down there that's

73:52 great of course it's weed dispensary

73:54 two big things down there well and tying

73:57 it back to your bootlegger thing like

74:00 like you know those those kinds of

74:02 careers were feeding people's addictions

74:04 or withdrawals right cuz during during

74:06 those times they couldn't we couldn't

74:08 have weed or we couldn't have couldn't

74:10 have your back to lane you can't have

74:12 your ice cream yeah it's interesting

74:14 what did you learn from these people

74:16 that you interviewed

74:18 hi I'm trying to remember I think a lot

74:21 of it was like no it was to really like

74:25 got to get that book back that's funny

74:29 oh by the way we just discovered a new

74:32 drink that you might be fascinated by so

74:34 you like those ultra waters the spritzer

74:37 yeah yeah so we just got a Costco

74:39 membership to help us save money for

74:41 groceries and man that place is fun they

74:47 sell these huge I just posted it to

74:49 Facebook yesterday but they sell these

74:50 huge Irish cream bottles for like super

74:52 fruits I think it's like 9 bucks for

74:54 like a ton like a month's worth right

74:56 yeah and we did it for coffee but then

74:59 we were like the other night we didn't

75:00 want to drink coffee at night but we

75:01 wanted the Irish cream and we didn't

75:03 have anything to put in it but we had

75:05 the spritzer so I was like let's try it

75:06 oh my god it's so amazing really yeah we

75:10 ought to do that huh

75:11 mix a shot of Irish cream with about

75:15 half a glass of spritzer Oh refreshing

75:18 like creamy

75:21 yeah it's try it we call it our we are

75:24 Costco Irish cream Italian soda what'd

75:32 you think all right you should start

75:34 maybe a little Portland's booth like

75:37 cart yes for those things I love it yeah

75:41 oh that would be great people will love

75:42 them it's a great summer drink too

75:47 because you know that you think of Irish

75:48 cream is like curling up with a

75:49 fireplace with the coffee but if you

75:52 want Irish cream but you're hot this is

75:54 a good yeah I like it I like it

75:58 right on Ben well okay so what do you

76:00 what it what keeps you busy these days

76:01 are you shooting mostly are you editing

76:03 Leslie

76:05 oh um well we're I'm actually in the

76:09 middle of a shoot right now well thanks

76:12 for taking time for this yeah yeah we

76:14 holiday yeah yeah but let's see i i've

76:21 been remodeling the house I um

76:24 I started just cleaning at the basement

76:27 because uh we want to move like kind of

76:31 an office down there and so office and

76:36 like the washer dryer we have like a you

76:39 know pantry that kind of thing

76:40 hey the driver will keep you warm down

76:42 there I remember you asking how to keep

76:43 it warm down there yeah well what I did

76:46 was I I I pulled everything down it was

76:50 a total mess like they're growing weed

76:52 and stuff here at one point it was just

76:54 like the electrical is like a bunch of

76:55 like meth riddled monkeys did electrical

76:58 downstairs it was just stupid well so

77:02 how'd you fixin that I could be a fire

77:03 hazard

77:04 oh god yeah seriously was anyway so then

77:09 I earthquake retrofit did the basement

77:10 it was just like straps you know you put

77:12 I which is that was a lot of work well

77:14 then I thought well shit the furnace is

77:17 gonna go out at some point we're

77:18 thinking about probably renting this

77:20 place out soon so another year so I

77:23 installed a mini split you know like the

77:27 on wall kind of things yeah yes those

77:34 are nice actually so I put in one of

77:36 those systems and then well yeah it's

77:39 just been like we're gonna hopefully get

77:41 sheetrock up there where do you think

77:43 you'll go next like your triplex maybe

77:45 before the land or the land you're not

77:48 sure yet are you my mom's getting older

77:53 too so you kind of keep that in

77:55 consideration will you absorb her into

77:57 your life and your living yeah cool oh I

78:01 bet she's a sweetheart I actually been

78:02 thinking about her and your dad during

78:05 this interview because I'm like you know

78:06 you just made them sound like wonderful

78:08 people raised you my mom mostly raised

78:12 me yeah okay my dad passed away when I

78:14 was down here but oh yeah you would you

78:16 would take her yeah she's hardcore pagan

78:19 oh I love old pagan lady I probably dig

78:22 having a conversation with her

78:26 well I should get going pretty soon here

78:28 sounds good yeah our audience has been

78:30 patient with me and you just babbling

78:32 through all these topics but I enjoy

78:35 these kind of deep dive conversations

78:37 with you Ben and I hope that our

78:39 audience gets something out of it too

78:40 cool oh this wasn't live was it well we

78:44 recorded it oh yeah it's definitely not

78:46 live oh my gosh because I have to edit

78:48 anything that would be particularly not

78:51 public worthy speaking of which you can

78:54 email me if there is anything you think

78:57 okay okay

78:59 but Ben thank you so much for taking

79:00 time as always you were very inspiring

79:03 to me yeah likewise my friend I get

79:06 inspired by you it's like you're your

79:08 creativity and sense of like connection

79:12 think really really meaningful oh thank

79:16 you Ben yeah I was telling Constance

79:18 last night that or this morning that

79:20 you're just like the kind of friend that

79:22 I need in my life because you're very

79:23 mellow and you calm you bring me down to

79:26 a more rounded place and you're just

79:29 funny as heck and yeah oh we didn't even

79:31 get to experience your humor today

79:34 Ben's funny yeah well say hi to your

79:42 wife hope we get to meet her someday

79:44 soon yeah we should do that we're

79:47 talking about we bumped into some jazz

79:48 musicians that were like playing

79:50 practicing across the street in the yard

79:52 you know social distancing and they're

79:54 like yeah we'll do like garden parties

79:58 if you know everybody's staying safe and

80:00 oh my god let us know and we would love

80:02 to do that with you guys yeah I try to

80:04 figure out a way to to do like something

80:06 say we'll bring our masks and hand

80:08 sanitizer and stay 60 parts all right

80:13 buddy all right thank you yeah have a

80:15 great day you too all right

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