Sacred Rebel: Episode 2-GUEST: BEN Z MUND COVID-19, Back to the Land, Water Witching, and more.
EPISODE 2
Ryan Ao interviews Ben Z Mund, a colleague in the media industry. Ben also does commercial photography and videography for clients like Nike and others. He is doing very well with his career in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis, unlike most people including Ryan. Topics discussed include how he sees this crisis inspiring people to go back to the land like the 60's-70's generation did. Also topics like Water Witching, Hyperloop Trains, Free Energy, Taurus Fields, Natural Building, and more. Links to some resources mentioned in the podcast:
Books mentioned: A Pattern Language: https://bit.ly/apatternlanguagepowells
Timeless Way of Building: https://bit.ly/timelesswayofbuilding
Anastasia Ringing Cedars of Russia :
Sample Read: http://bit.ly/anastasiaringingcedars
Worlds Most Extraordinary Home Portugal: BBC short teaser https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05zdpgq
and entire episode on:
https://www.netflix.com/title/80213025
Real Goods and The Solar Living Institute in Hopland, CA https://realgoods.com/https://solarliving.org/
You can find the audio podcast at:
You can listen on all the major podcast platforms with links to them here: https://anchor.fm/sacredrebel
You can find Ben Z Mund at:
https://www.facebook.com/Benzmundphotography/
and
https://www.instagram.com/benzmund/
You can find Ryan Ao at: https://www.ryanao.com
TRANSCRIPT:
00:31 you
01:29 hello
01:31 hey hey Ben you hear me yeah can you
01:36 write yeah yeah oh I put my headphones
01:39 on Oh should I do that as well first
01:43 sound um let me think I think yeah why
01:48 not okay that way we don't get any
01:54 feedback have you done a podcast before
02:01 I can't say that I did do an audio one
02:07 recently with Jeanette um she she
02:13 recorded she was doing that she has like
02:15 a weekly one with her friend or
02:18 bimonthly uh whatever the hell they want
02:21 to like well and uh see this works can
02:26 you hear me on this yes can you hear me
02:28 yeah perfect quiet okay um hi hello
02:38 hello hello
02:42 hello hello oh there it is okay cool let
02:46 me go in in my zoom recording really
02:48 quick and free up some space for the
02:50 recording I forgot that it will not
02:54 record to my cloud if it's full that's
02:57 someone who'd delete a bunch real quick
02:59 okay and delete okay
03:05 cool we're good to go who gave you that
03:08 wicked fade that was Taylor Matt fees
03:12 did you see I just posted a podcast last
03:15 night on the flip where he was giving me
03:18 this haircut while we're in a podcast
03:22 it's fun and I've got a video and I'll
03:25 be posting that to YouTube too so you
03:27 can see him like it's so fun you look
03:31 good I like the beard on you thanks yeah
03:34 I have never grown one before
03:36 what so this is the most beardy I've
03:38 ever been first time for a beard and
03:41 first time for a podcast with video
03:48 today well you know whatever feels
03:52 sacredly rebellious but um but I loved
03:54 your comment about how you felt like
03:56 people would be moving back to the land
03:58 and more more more because of coven 18
04:03 but uh yeah I mean as you know as you
04:06 might have you did you read at least the
04:08 show notes for the first episode No so
04:11 no worries well sacred rebel is my
04:15 opportunity it started out as a way for
04:17 me to just have a cathartic place for me
04:19 to kind of come out of a closet so to
04:21 speak about all kinds of truth theories
04:24 I call them and you know alternative
04:26 thought processes that are just not
04:28 talked about in the mainstream
04:29 alternative healing alternative
04:31 experiences like I wast or Forrest Eco
04:35 thirty that you know light just all
04:38 these different things that I'm really
04:40 into I've experienced I've researched
04:42 but I don't talk about to anybody
04:44 because it's just not like for example
04:47 like I worry in you know on a regular
04:52 basis if the things that I share
04:53 publicly will impact my
04:55 to get a job with Nike or whatever you
04:58 know like and at this point with covin
05:00 19 I've just been seeing so many people
05:02 becoming so much more brave and more
05:04 conscious that I'm just like you know
05:07 what I just want to follow my heart and
05:08 if this means that I get to share some
05:11 stuff that I finally share with people
05:14 and they realize that they feel the same
05:16 way then how cool is that you know and
05:19 you commented it so I'm like alright Ben
05:21 let's do this yeah I think that I think
05:25 sharing I mean sharing your quirky side
05:29 always well not always but oftentimes
05:33 will endear you to people you know
05:35 because cuz then your everybody has a
05:38 quirky side and otherwise things are
05:41 kind of vanilla on a flip side of course
05:44 like you know if you started spouting
05:47 things that were obviously like bad or
05:52 wrong or that kind of thing like
05:55 Bennet's then it's kind of like
05:56 questionable so I suppose you need to
06:02 play it safe a little bit that way or
06:04 yeah I mean if it turns out that you're
06:06 a huge racist that I split people should
06:08 know right right you know I mean good
06:12 even I mean so there's a black and white
06:13 area right there it's like yeah if
06:15 you're racist or being like a Hitler
06:17 then yeah that's gonna go over bad but
06:19 you know it's even been scary for me to
06:21 admit things like and that movie that
06:23 came out recently that caused quite a
06:25 controversy called Plan Demick um I
06:28 wrote about that and encourage people to
06:30 download it and I got horrible feedback
06:34 on that comment I was like oops so I
06:36 took that post down because I felt like
06:40 one of the comments was saying that I
06:42 was promoting misinformation that could
06:45 be harmful to others so I thought well
06:47 there's a good point I don't want to I
06:49 don't want to harm anyone so you know so
06:51 I'm learning that there's there are
06:53 limits to what is socially acceptable in
06:55 this truth Theory stuff you know so I am
06:58 I am planning to be careful but at the
07:01 same time if it's not gonna if it's
07:03 clearly not gonna cause anybody harm but
07:05 it opens up discussion that's healthy
07:08 all right I suppose but there's things
07:11 like for instance like queuing on yes
07:13 it's just total bullshit and everybody
07:15 yeah I totally think it is and the only
07:18 reason it's like of any interest is that
07:21 it's it's like watching a freaking plane
07:23 wreck train wreck whatever the ironist
07:26 yeah it's and and those kind of videos
07:29 are fed to you through YouTube's
07:33 algorithm because wow I wanna kick well
07:36 you've heard how YouTube changed their
07:38 viewing platform yeah a year to go right
07:41 so it doesn't it doesn't send you down
07:43 the path of like for me it's a lot of
07:46 it's like home repair or or like photo
07:50 based things and it goes from those two
07:53 like check out this crazy footage of
07:57 like the secret meeting between you know
08:00 whatever it'll go down that path and
08:02 it'll just get worse and worse because
08:03 it's like that's what people will keep
08:06 watching and then and that almost
08:09 entirely due to that algorithm it
08:12 promoted all this all right shit that's
08:14 come up oh can I say this is totally not
08:19 censored so yes that's part of like how
08:24 Q Anand came to be like oh my god
08:29 there's I mean there's so many weird
08:31 weird things out there that are like
08:33 that are only there because it's just
08:35 been spoon-fed to us yeah so what are
08:40 your thoughts on well first of all how
08:43 are you doing been during Kovan if we're
08:44 gonna talk about kovat I've been so
08:46 wondering about you because I don't want
08:49 to introduce you really quick to people
08:50 just so people know who you are and I
08:53 will do that through a pre-recorded a
08:55 little bit but um Ben you and I have
08:59 known each other for four five years now
09:01 something like that at least yeah
09:03 and we both come from the same town of
09:05 Santa Rosa so we have some mutual
09:06 friends some mutual experiences and you
09:11 showed this amazing art project in my
09:14 gallery called it was about Lewis and
09:18 Clark discovering rediscovering Portland
09:20 in the modern day
09:22 with a very very cute photography
09:25 project that you did and created a
09:27 calendar out of and so we we connected
09:29 through the photography world and over
09:32 the years we've we've come to know each
09:34 other more as you know people who have a
09:37 very similar mindset about life in
09:40 general very conscious open-minded
09:43 lovers of the natural world you know
09:46 stuff like that but then on the flip
09:47 side we also work in the corporate media
09:49 world like making photo photography and
09:52 video on a professional level and we've
09:54 even worked together professionally a
09:56 few times and so you're a friend of mine
09:59 who I'm constantly looking to - how's
10:02 business how's life what's going on in
10:05 that world and then on the flip loving
10:07 watching your social media channels and
10:09 the trips you take the marriage that you
10:11 the wedding you had out in California
10:13 that I just totally loved watching and
10:15 so I feel like we're a good fit for this
10:19 show because you're exactly the kind of
10:21 person I would see as somebody I would
10:24 love to open up to about this stuff
10:25 because in general I think I keep that
10:27 kind of that part of myself a little bit
10:29 hidden from a person like you because we
10:31 have a tendency to keep in touch about
10:33 work-related stuff and you know like I
10:36 was saying earlier I wouldn't want you
10:37 to know about so am i far out there
10:40 thinking's because I wouldn't want to
10:42 not get invited to a professional gig if
10:45 you were worried that I would be
10:46 spouting off conspiracy theories on the
10:48 job or something but on that note I do
10:54 think about you a lot during coven 18
10:56 and ironically you had a comment on my
10:59 post about the first sacred rebel
11:01 podcast and you said I think a lot of
11:05 people are going to be going back to the
11:06 land because they're Cova 19 and you
11:08 know that was really really interesting
11:10 for you to say Ben because here you are
11:12 a corporate photographer working with a
11:14 big client like Nike and other clients
11:18 that are huge and you are the one who I
11:23 know in this media world who's actually
11:25 staying busy you're the one in the
11:28 photography video world I don't know
11:29 anybody who's staying busy so that's
11:31 exciting to me that here that you're
11:32 doing well I'd love to hear more about
11:35 why you made
11:35 comment because if here you are person
11:39 that's you know very credibly successful
11:41 in the media world making a comment that
11:45 you think the co vid is gonna cause this
11:47 I would love to hear why you think that
11:49 yeah I don't know that was I gotta admit
11:54 it was kind of spur-of-the-moment
11:55 comment I mean I but I after talking to
11:59 people it seems like a lot of people are
12:01 considering moving back to the land we
12:04 throw our you we've been talking to
12:07 about it for at least a year at least
12:09 like buying something I mean I I grew up
12:14 I didn't grow up in Santa Rosa I grew up
12:15 in a little town called Willis
12:17 which is north okay and there was you
12:21 know it was quiet at night like I don't
12:27 think people in the city understand how
12:29 quiet it can be yeah and and and I also
12:36 talked to people that live in the city
12:37 and have gone out to the country or
12:39 camping or whatever and they're actually
12:41 like kind of weirded out and freaked out
12:43 about how quiet it is there's no white
12:47 noise yeah yeah I don't see you know I
12:52 gotta admit that I don't think that
12:54 unless you've lived in the country
12:55 before and you have some wild notion
12:58 that like you're gonna go pick up and
13:00 move out to land and homestead good
13:04 fucking luck cuz it's not easy to do
13:07 there's so many things that that you
13:09 have to do you need a bolt for one
13:12 little broken project you got to drive
13:15 into town and get it because you don't
13:18 have it right everything is more
13:21 expensive you're driving all the time
13:23 Wow good point you know you need to
13:27 drive to get you need to like you want
13:31 to go get groceries like you have to
13:32 plan that you know just like oh I forgot
13:34 milk I'm gonna walk to get it because
13:37 you do that cow which is a realistic
13:42 option if you're living in the land yeah
13:45 yeah I can see it being a
13:49 more available now that that sounds like
13:53 a lot of companies are gonna embrace
13:55 work from home more i got a facebook
13:58 i've heard facebook is wow my concern
14:02 and I gotta admit we're both
14:04 Californians but bunch of fucking
14:07 Californians leave it up here it's like
14:10 all their money and buying land up here
14:12 yeah for you and I can it's true and and
14:15 we are ones to admit that you know
14:17 Oregon is very attractive to a person
14:20 who loves nature yeah you know yeah for
14:24 sure and it's it with climate change
14:25 it's gonna be cooler and a lot like
14:29 maybe California was when we were living
14:32 there 20 or 30 years ago
14:33 well then they're saying that actually
14:35 they did a list of the top places to be
14:38 for climate refugees in Portland Oregon
14:40 was the number one you saw that yeah and
14:44 I think that was mostly based on racial
14:46 equality for opportunities for people of
14:50 minority status and lower income status
14:52 to find a place to be that they would be
14:54 included that they would be included
14:56 because Portland has all these very
14:58 progressive policies for you know
15:01 environmental justice and stuff like
15:04 that so I thought that was cool but it's
15:06 also because of the climate here it's
15:08 just perfect
15:09 yeah yeah well I think the other thing
15:12 that kind of but I'd bump up against you
15:14 about moving out somewhere is you don't
15:18 see your friends anymore like you like I
15:23 have some really good friends older
15:25 couple and they move down to Silverton
15:27 which you know if people don't know it's
15:30 it's maybe 45 minutes from Portland here
15:34 yeah and beautiful little town we see
15:37 them once a year I used to see them once
15:39 a month at least oh and that's what
15:42 happens because like if you live in the
15:44 city your life is your life is moving
15:46 faster if you're gonna go say out to the
15:51 country somewhere like you're not just
15:53 doing it in the afternoon and coming
15:55 back like you're going out for a couple
15:56 days or you're going out for the whole
15:58 day and be able to take a whole day off
16:01 and especially with people
16:03 it's like but you don't see your friends
16:06 anymore that moved to the country you
16:07 might think that you're gonna see people
16:08 and you may see a few but it's a
16:12 different it's gonna be a different life
16:13 yeah so our ideal situation that we talk
16:17 about is like well you know we own the
16:19 house here in Portland but would it be
16:21 nice to have like a big ol triplex
16:24 like somewhere close in and rent out
16:27 most of it and then like own land
16:29 somewhere and be able to like still
16:32 access it until we're ready to do
16:35 something out there yeah now okay so
16:39 that reminds me of the Anastasia ringing
16:41 cedar of Russia books have you heard of
16:42 those no you might like them and that's
16:45 actually one of the topics I wrote about
16:47 on my show notes but so here we go I'll
16:49 mention that a little bit
16:52 basically in Russia there's a huge Eco
16:56 village movement that started
16:57 encouraging people to do exactly what
16:59 you just said by these what they call
17:01 little daka's or gotchas I'm not sure
17:03 the Russian word and it's a plot usually
17:06 late an acre or less out in the country
17:09 usually about 45 to an hour away from
17:11 the city or more dependent but just
17:14 enough where they can get out into
17:15 nature but still be closely accessing
17:17 the city because what they do then is
17:19 they live in the city and they go out
17:21 and they start developing gardens and
17:23 maybe a small place to live and the week
17:25 on the weekends and then they eventually
17:27 move out there but it takes school years
17:29 usually to kind of or some of them never
17:32 move out there and they stay in the city
17:34 but they have a place on the weekends
17:36 where they can go be in touch with
17:37 nature grow their own food possible
17:39 living down in the city they harvest
17:41 bring it back to the city and you know
17:43 that was all sparked by when the fall of
17:46 communism happened people were broke in
17:51 Russia and they started getting really
17:53 thrifty and when these books came out
17:56 about encouraging people to do this they
17:59 blew up and now people have a way to
18:01 live more financially economical lives
18:04 by doing this and still live in cities
18:06 this is in the show notes I can check it
18:10 out well yeah just the name anastasia
18:11 ringing cedar of russia books okay yeah
18:14 if you google Anastasia ringing city of
18:16 there's ten books and if you even just
18:19 read a few chapters into the first one
18:22 you'll get a good just of it yeah
18:24 I will admit there's there's another
18:26 side to the books which you have to
18:27 understand which is that there was a big
18:30 question about whether the books are
18:32 true the guy who wrote the book claims
18:34 that he met this woman out in the
18:36 wilderness who lives off the land and
18:40 she's very spiritual and she's very
18:43 mystical and a lot of the things he
18:45 claims she said and did are very
18:49 mind-boggling you're like what is this
18:52 possible is this true get past that
18:54 because I think after many years of
18:57 savings not true well here's the thing
19:00 though and that's the thing like he even
19:02 says at the very beginning in the
19:03 foreword like the question is not
19:05 whether these books are true or not the
19:07 question is whether these books spark
19:09 your imagination about what is possible
19:11 and that's what I love about them
19:13 because after years of reading them like
19:15 sure of course when I was reading them
19:16 most of my mind was focused on is this
19:19 true but years later what stayed with me
19:21 are the ideas of what's possible and I
19:23 don't even care anymore whether it's
19:25 true or not yeah you know and it's if
19:28 it's like teaching us how to you know
19:30 spark our imaginations about living like
19:33 we're talking about in the future then
19:34 why not read these books you know yeah I
19:38 I think that it kind of reminds me of
19:43 talking to a lot of the my parents
19:48 generation who lived in a country back
19:51 you know in our our old area down there
19:53 and we'll it ya Ukiah
19:56 like the the a lot of them came out
19:59 during the whole back to the land
20:01 movement in the 70s yeah you know bought
20:03 land and cuz their thought was you the
20:07 world is not going the direction that we
20:09 want it to and and you know we're gonna
20:12 move to the country and make our own
20:13 community and a lot of them were really
20:16 successful and and I feel like well you
20:22 know the weed industry had a lot to do
20:23 with supporting them too in a lot of
20:25 places but so there were a lot of
20:28 artists making livings
20:30 way a lot of creatives out there and it
20:34 was it was spawned through an idea a
20:38 taste of magic the drug movement and the
20:43 you know the psychedelic movement like
20:45 and and uh that was I feel like it's
20:50 kind of cyclical that way and it feels
20:53 like maybe it might start happening
20:55 again for different reasons but uh
20:58 beautiful
21:00 that was the those are the people that I
21:02 grew up around and well that says a lot
21:05 about you you're so Zen and open-minded
21:08 and artistic that but yet you have this
21:10 other side of you that's very good at
21:12 business and you're you're technically
21:14 very proficient and like you create
21:16 these machines for these Nike shoots
21:18 that are like what know so it's like you
21:20 you balance both worlds really well and
21:22 I can see that yeah III you know we
21:26 always joked in the sustainable
21:27 communities that I lived and that our
21:28 kids were gonna be city people because
21:31 we're we we would be pushing so hard on
21:34 these kids to love nature and and of
21:37 course you know and love alternative
21:39 living of course kids tend to do the
21:41 opposite of what their parents do yeah
21:42 you might be a good example of that you
21:44 turned out beautifully what's she
21:47 leaning towards total total city girl
21:52 but she's she's excited about the
21:54 prospect of moving back to the land she
21:56 just says you know we have to have
21:58 friends around so that's interesting
22:00 that you brought that up
22:01 she's very social does she like nature
22:06 she loves nature as far as playing but
22:10 as far as appreciating you know getting
22:13 out to exercise and be in touch with the
22:15 natural that could she could care less
22:17 about that I might just come with age
22:20 great I hope so yeah but she know she
22:25 appreciates like grabbing a Daniel and
22:28 poufy and like goofing them or chasing
22:30 butterflies and creating a story about
22:32 the fairy that she's chasing or whatever
22:34 you know that that's what she enjoys and
22:37 I feel like her imagination goes wild in
22:39 nature and she doesn't even realize that
22:41 it's because it's nature so that make
22:43 happy yeah so when you lived you live in
22:51 Santa Rosa and then you live in Hawaii
22:53 for a long time right oh yeah but was
22:56 there community out there it was that
22:57 kind of a back to the land thing for you
22:59 it's actually kind of what got me into
23:01 the books that Anastasia books and yeah
23:03 cuz we were living basically on the land
23:06 with very little money all of us had
23:09 unique ways of making it work but mostly
23:12 just you know like in Hawaii it's so
23:15 easy to live like you don't need a house
23:17 you could live in it we literally lived
23:19 in a carport on pallets and I thought
23:23 the carport cost like what I don't know
23:24 they're like one hundred and fifty
23:25 dollars at Costco or something and
23:28 they're perfectly waterproof so and
23:30 they're huge we've taken those to
23:32 Burning Man okay yes yeah okay yeah so
23:36 they're great I mean in Hawaii the
23:37 weather is always perfect although it
23:39 does rain pretty hard during the day
23:41 sometimes and you have to kind of watch
23:43 out for black mold but we all had ways
23:46 of sharing techniques to avoid that and
23:49 is this the gardening there was just so
23:52 prolific you could grow all year round
23:54 you know so we were just like literally
23:57 doing kind of what we're talking about
23:59 but back in like what was the year it
24:01 was 2012 through 2015 and it's funny
24:06 been because I think at that time the
24:07 hippies like we were hippies full
24:10 disclosure and we were totally part of a
24:15 movement during that time in history to
24:18 kind of recreate what our parents were
24:20 creating in the 60s but I think it kind
24:24 of died down I think all of us kind of
24:26 got real about a lot of us had kids you
24:29 know and a lot of us were a little bit
24:32 homesick for the mainland and I think
24:34 most of us lasted about three years on
24:36 Kauai and then left mm-hmm
24:38 some of them are still hardcore doing it
24:40 but those are the far and few between so
24:43 where was there someone that bought land
24:46 and then you guys all lived out there
24:47 yeah so Jack I'm sorry jack
24:54 so you know the band's
24:56 Crosby Stills and Nash uh-huh so Nash
25:01 Graham Nash of that band who grew up
25:04 with John Lennon and stuff he has lived
25:07 on kawaii ever since he got famous
25:10 because it was kind of his escape and he
25:13 built this little kind of I don't know
25:18 bungalow heaven out in this mountainous
25:21 area of Hawaii and there's like all
25:24 these small little homes and then
25:26 there's gardens everywhere and they were
25:28 very they so they raised their son their
25:30 kids like that well guess what all of
25:32 all was it three or four of the kids
25:34 most of them moved to cities like New
25:36 York or San Francisco or LA but one of
25:38 them Jackson the youngest one the babies
25:40 stayed on kawaii and became the super
25:43 environmentalist hippie dude nice and so
25:46 he said dad all I've ever wanted from
25:49 you is just a piece of land and so his
25:52 dad's inheritance to him was a piece of
25:54 really really really rundown property at
25:57 Jackson's request because Jackson wanted
25:59 it to be relatable to other people so
26:02 they bought like a twenty five thousand
26:04 dollar piece of property which was I
26:06 think me it might have been more like a
26:08 hundred thousand actually now that I
26:09 think about it but still relatable you
26:11 know something that any of us could do
26:12 mm-hmm
26:13 and um I was just trashed it was like
26:16 like a dump it was basically a dump and
26:18 all overgrown with buffalo grass it's
26:20 like 12 feet tall and cuts you when you
26:23 walk through it and they've restored
26:25 that land into this Eden but that with
26:28 the help of us community living there
26:31 and you know it went through its growing
26:33 pains and a lot of us left partially
26:35 because of the challenges of living in a
26:37 communal setting like that but also
26:39 partially because we were just all going
26:42 in different directions
26:43 and so he's been kind of keeping that
26:46 going and I think he's he has more of
26:48 like a woofing mentality on it now do
26:51 you know what oh the living there's not
26:54 the like the sound meditation oh no no
26:57 the you know like yeah that's Rolfing
27:00 good job no willing workers on organic
27:02 farms ok and travel then get a job on an
27:06 organic farm I think he's I think
27:07 they're doing more of that I mean they
27:09 do have a few people that live there
27:10 with them but the this the people change
27:13 so they're kind of just leading the way
27:16 on Hawaii for an example of how to
27:19 create a permaculture paradise out in
27:22 Hawaii with the knowledge that he's had
27:24 his whole life of you know the plants
27:27 that grow well there and all that but
27:28 it's interesting you say that it's hard
27:30 to do that because you know another
27:33 thing that we haven't talked about is
27:34 that that knowledge is basically lost on
27:36 our generation yeah you know like what
27:40 time of year to plant and how to sprout
27:43 seeds correctly because they're all
27:45 different and you know all that stuff is
27:48 just we don't know it anymore
27:50 hmm so I think that's for me the big
27:53 scary thing about moving back to land is
27:55 like could we even do it could we even
27:57 grow food you know well huh what are
28:01 your thoughts on that
28:02 Josh I don't know I haven't done like
28:06 large-scale food farming before I think
28:09 have you even gardened yeah so so you
28:17 know how to grow like some lettuce and
28:20 you know being the basic peas or
28:23 tomatoes or yeah are you doing that here
28:27 in Portland well my wife has a small
28:30 garden here so I haven't been doing too
28:32 much yeah have you started that sense
28:35 kovin since quarantine Garden yeah I
28:41 think that there might have been like
28:44 some spurring of that but we had one
28:47 last year too so we do we do but yeah I
28:50 know some I certainly know some folks
28:51 that have like gone a little more
28:52 hardcore like went out and got chickens
28:55 and wow that whole bit which is funny to
28:58 me because like it's that whole thing
29:01 where people I like oh I'm gonna get
29:02 55-gallon drums in the storm with
29:04 rainwater or you could spend five cents
29:08 and fill a 55-gallon drum with municipal
29:10 water or you could spend you know $15 on
29:18 like a super organic giant chicken of
29:22 some kind and store it
29:24 because the feed and all the upkeep and
29:26 all that stuff for chickens I mean I
29:27 guess you get fresh eggs yes so and I
29:31 guess there's kind of an egg shortage
29:32 right now yes that's true you know it's
29:36 funny
29:36 so even going back to your original
29:38 topic like people will people who move
29:40 back to the lane because of covered you
29:42 know even just growing gardens I've
29:44 noticed like it's like the Victory
29:46 Garden movement but I like Covent
29:47 Gardens yeah that's true it I wish we
29:51 would kind of move back to the that what
29:56 was a depression-era style of like
29:59 trying to to grow your own food and yeah
30:04 I gotta admit like it's it's been nice
30:09 to walk around the neighborhood and
30:10 everybody's working on their homes and
30:13 their calmness and going for walks with
30:16 like all these happy dogs it's like oh
30:18 this is this feels like the community
30:20 that I want amen
30:22 doesn't it feel you know i it's funny
30:24 you said that it feels like it was when
30:26 we were kids doesn't it like people used
30:29 to get out and do stuff like that and it
30:31 stopped because of cell phones I think I
30:34 agree yeah yeah or just in general like
30:37 so much social media mm-hmm or I gotta
30:42 say to video games it's like kids will
30:43 just set down and play like that's
30:48 reward yeah or not just because our
30:52 parents are trying to keep him busy and
30:54 you know I have to say on that note I
30:57 feel like a lot of parents have been
30:59 struggling during kovat on what to do
31:01 with their kids because the schools are
31:02 closed yeah and we have the struggles so
31:06 hard with our daughter on the screen
31:08 time and we're just finding a lot of
31:12 parents are kind of trying to not shame
31:15 themselves or their kids over it too
31:17 much right now because it's such a
31:18 crisis and nobody knows what they're
31:20 doing anymore Oh
31:21 shaming them over using too much screen
31:24 screen time yeah but I think a lot of us
31:26 are you know okay we got to be careful
31:28 about this and we're conscious about
31:29 this but dang it what do we do yeah
31:32 because we're stuck inside and we're not
31:35 allowed to go out that much and it's
31:36 just been hard
31:37 you know so but I agree I mean it's
31:39 something that we do need to pay
31:40 attention to yeah you are you guys
31:45 planning to have kids Ben that's funny
31:47 we were just talking about that today
31:49 yeah we're like on the fence mostly
31:51 mostly off off the fence okay you never
31:55 know though it's true it's true what
32:00 would be an in what am I trying to say
32:05 that word what would be an encouraging
32:07 factor something a factor that would
32:09 make you want to do it one of the pros
32:12 have you done a pros and cons list I
32:14 think it for me it would be like a
32:18 severe environmental change you know
32:22 like in the positive cuz all right I
32:25 don't have too much faith and in the way
32:28 that our environments going right now
32:30 and and I would have a really hard time
32:32 bringing a kid into that world where
32:35 they just see the decline in our
32:36 ecosystem yeah what do you think like so
32:40 you're saying like something as positive
32:43 is like what happened to the skies in LA
32:44 during the shutdown maybe yeah this has
32:47 been great for the environment you know
32:49 it's like we really found out what who
32:51 the real disease is you know it's us the
32:55 problem what do you think that you know
32:58 it's funny you say that because I
32:59 believe if we keep this working from
33:02 home thing going we might see a
33:03 permanent reduction in air pollution
33:05 yeah yeah I would really I'd really
33:10 welcome that I think that would be
33:12 fantastic I I was getting excited even
33:15 though I think Elon Musk is kind of a
33:17 tool he's a weird man such a dick
33:22 product his product is amazing but dang
33:24 he's a weird man yeah when he was
33:26 talking about that Hyperloop thing and
33:28 that made me really excited about moving
33:31 back to the land because like if that
33:34 thing moves as fast as people say and
33:37 people can work from home as well like
33:41 then the sky's the limit on where we
33:42 could live because you know if it's
33:44 shooting out just using Oregon as an
33:47 example like if it if it goes out to
33:49 Idaho or it
33:50 you know West or even you know if it
33:54 goes between say here in Eugene yeah if
33:57 it takes lesson what were they saying
34:00 like half an hour yeah it was like 20
34:03 minutes to Seattle maybe half an hour -
34:05 Eugene it was like an hour from San
34:07 Francisco to LA or something it was yeah
34:10 something like that if it stopped
34:12 anywhere along the way like you could
34:16 live in that zone yeah and you could
34:18 work in Portland yeah and you could live
34:21 like you could live in Eugene and work
34:22 in Portland yeah
34:24 IBM easily yeah people who could live
34:26 early and then it would spread things
34:29 out a little bit yeah I don't know if
34:31 that's good or bad for the environment
34:32 yeah okay so you want to get into
34:35 something about transportation that I
34:36 believe and here's my chance to be a
34:38 sacred a rebel about it have you ever
34:40 looked into any of these ideas of
34:44 oppressed free energy devices or things
34:48 that the supposed industry has like
34:50 oppressed I've never seen one that's
34:53 real okay but have you heard about the
34:55 idea that oh yeah I've seen YouTube
34:57 videos pretend yeah they have some
34:59 spinning with like a battery hidden on
35:01 it yeah well when I was on kawaii do you
35:04 know who nassim haramein is yeah I've
35:07 met him a few times yep what you met him
35:09 where do you used to used to come to
35:12 some of that some friends of mine
35:14 through a lot so I hung out with that
35:16 guy quite a bit oh wow okay so I met him
35:18 on Kauai and went to his town where he
35:20 was researching and he walked me right
35:22 by the lab but he wouldn't let me in
35:24 where they were doing the research on
35:26 his free energy device so I believe that
35:29 there's something there dude have you
35:31 talked to him about his work in that
35:32 field no I talked to him mostly was that
35:35 like event horizon okay Wow thanks but
35:39 which is where there's an infinite
35:41 enlargement and an infinite smallness of
35:43 the universe right and we're kind of
35:44 right in the middle mm-hmm is that what
35:46 you were talking about generally yeah
35:49 yes are really interesting philosophy
35:51 that's based and his idea of science
35:55 right which is what I tend to lean
35:59 spiritually yeah yes sir beautiful agree
36:02 with everything that he says yeah
36:04 well that's beautiful I mean that's the
36:06 kind of stuff that I love hearing about
36:07 too on this podcast which I'm hoping to
36:09 talk more about is just leaning towards
36:11 something that maybe not be the
36:13 mainstream merit narrative and that's
36:15 beautiful yeah yeah I what go ahead you
36:20 were gonna say something about him oh I
36:22 was gonna say something about free
36:23 energy hmm I think that like to say that
36:26 there you can create something out of
36:27 nothing goes against like yeah that one
36:32 of the main principles you know like e
36:35 equals MC squared
36:36 like that's isn't that proven it's a
36:38 proven scientific sort of theory anymore
36:42 honestly I think it's it's it's the same
36:45 harriman that could answer that question
36:47 best because I think 'no sim has
36:49 actually solved an equation of e equals
36:52 MC square that hadn't been solved yet
36:56 according to him right have you have you
36:59 heard about that no yeah so he he
37:02 basically oh gosh I'm gonna get in the
37:05 territory where I studied years ago and
37:07 I can't remember anymore but he
37:08 basically solved for the equation of the
37:13 quantum physics part of e equals MC
37:16 square that hadn't been proven yet so
37:19 mathematically he he basically thought
37:22 outside of the box and kind of was able
37:24 to solve for that part and I think what
37:27 it all relates to Wareham is that what
37:30 you're talking about were physics you
37:33 can't break the law of physics what his
37:35 point is so it's interesting we're
37:37 talking about in the same because he
37:38 changed my mind about what you just said
37:40 the point is is that when you look at
37:42 math and physics from a spiritual
37:44 perspective that changes everything and
37:47 then these these ideas of like the torus
37:51 field have you ever seen that that shape
37:54 where the energy goes up around back
37:56 down and back up again yep folks so
37:59 they're saying that that's the
38:00 foundation for free energy and it in it
38:05 somehow fits within the laws of physics
38:08 because it's looking at physics in a
38:10 spiritual dimensional way and I think
38:13 the spiritual dimensional sacred
38:15 geometry is what causes
38:18 the infinite feedback loop does that
38:20 make sense
38:21 mm-hmm and so if you apply that to like
38:24 a spaceship for example then you can
38:28 basically create a bubble in space-time
38:31 which is part of the e equals mc-squared
38:34 equation and you can move through that
38:36 bubble infinitely and not run out of
38:40 energy and also you can super fast
38:43 travel and turn at speeds that are super
38:46 fast and not feel the G's because the
38:48 gravity there's no gravity or some or
38:50 the gravitational field is acts
38:52 different so when you're talking about
38:54 hyper loops I always think of like well
38:56 what about that technology being applied
38:59 if it's if it's there and if people like
39:02 Miss M are claiming they're working with
39:03 it you know yeah so I hope that that
39:07 comes out but he's poor guy he's just
39:10 like he says life has been threatened so
39:13 he has to be very careful about coming
39:15 out with it what he told me is that he
39:22 has been thwarted over and over and over
39:24 again and that you know of course his
39:27 life is in danger at any time because if
39:30 the if he if he takes it out to the
39:31 public in a way that harms the oil
39:34 industry then you know his life could be
39:37 threatened so he has to like mostly just
39:39 deal with them
39:42 trolling his work and causing him
39:46 setbacks financially and stuff like that
39:48 uh yeah I I support it but I don't
39:53 necessarily believe it gotta admit I
39:56 think I'm more of a cynic when it comes
39:57 to this stuff like I want to be able to
40:00 if Ike if he's hiding it can't see it so
40:03 yeah you know I mean like anything else
40:05 I'd be like I don't know man yeah well I
40:09 have a friend who was living on Kauai at
40:12 the same time we were and she's and she
40:15 used to work for Apple she has the
40:17 patent for the first either net card
40:20 built into the first Apple Computer so
40:22 she worked directly with Steve Jobs and
40:24 she went to UC Berkeley for engineering
40:27 and she's an interesting conundrum
40:29 because she confirmed to me that she
40:32 met miss him on kawaii and worked with
40:35 him in his lab and knows that the
40:36 machine exists and it is it works but
40:39 the problem is the application at the
40:43 level they're at right now wouldn't work
40:45 like it's like power Casio watch rather
40:49 than like a UFO alright so like the
40:52 Theory's been proven but the application
40:55 is not working right now and as an
40:57 engineer she was gonna help him apply it
40:59 because she went to India and did some
41:02 sacred journeying spiritual journeying
41:05 and while she was doing that journeying
41:06 she got a download for how to make it
41:09 work hmm but here's an interesting point
41:12 she went to work with the sim and after
41:16 you know a little while of them working
41:18 together she said his ego was getting in
41:21 the way and she couldn't deal with it
41:23 and I have heard that about miss him and
41:25 I experienced a little bit that myself
41:27 with him so she bailed on the project
41:30 and so I was like so what are you gonna
41:33 what are you gonna make your version of
41:34 this and she said well it's all about
41:36 funding and safety and so she was saying
41:39 the same things that Miss Emma was
41:40 saying is just like really hard to make
41:42 it happen yeah I mean why why hide it
41:46 you know like yeah why not like seed it
41:50 everywhere and let and let and
41:53 crowdsource it if it's really something
41:55 cuz that seems like good point he
41:57 doesn't strike me as the kind of person
41:58 that wants to just hold on all the money
42:00 from it right so well actually that's
42:03 kind of a that's what she had to deal
42:05 with with him the ego was about who gets
42:07 credit for the invention and she was
42:10 like oh come on so and she being a woman
42:14 felt his patriarchal energy was a little
42:19 bit off and he's also in well I'm not
42:22 gonna go there yeah never mind I was
42:24 gonna say something else I won't say you
42:27 have to cut all this out yeah yeah he's
42:32 he's a really really sweet guy from what
42:34 I know and what I but like as all of us
42:36 he has his issues you know and III
42:38 witnessed some of them and what did you
42:41 think when you met him did he seem he
42:43 got a sweet
42:46 yeah he he seemed very sweet I didn't
42:50 see the ego some okay but he was doing
42:53 mostly like he would do a talk yeah you
42:57 know so we'd have a bunch of people get
42:58 together yeah I'd like a like a weekend
43:00 yeah get away
43:02 and then he'd do a talk about yeah so I
43:05 filmed one of his talk and ended up
43:07 doing some video work with him and his
43:08 team and that's why I ran into some
43:11 problems a little challenging on that
43:14 project but he you know he's not on
43:18 kawaii anymore I think he's like he's on
43:21 the Big Island I think huh last I heard
43:24 he moved and I think he kind of went
43:29 deeper into secrecy at that point cuz
43:32 whatever happened was not good why he
43:34 had to leave Hawaii you think you'll
43:37 ever move back there you know it's funny
43:40 to us that so we've always had the dream
43:43 of having like a dual life where we like
43:46 winter in Hawaii and then like summer in
43:50 the Pacific Northwest but I don't know
43:53 if we'll ever move back there unless we
43:55 had the financial resources to do that
43:57 and right now with this situation we
43:59 don't we don't know what's gonna happen
44:01 in the future yeah how is this impacted
44:03 you workwise well it's interesting so
44:06 when the quarantine started happening we
44:10 were financially doing better than we've
44:12 ever done we had more clients I actually
44:14 couldn't even keep up with the work I
44:16 was so busy and I was starting to hire
44:19 it out and then all of a sudden it just
44:20 went crash off a cliff like every single
44:24 client canceled yeah and I was even I
44:27 was even getting asked for some refunds
44:29 and we were like oh man we're gonna go
44:32 into debt giving these refunds so like
44:34 we worked it out so we didn't have to
44:36 get any refunds by um you know
44:38 rescheduling pivoting the projects and
44:40 we're scheduling and stuff further down
44:42 the road and so we've got you know our
44:45 plate full down the road but right now
44:47 we actually still had a lot of projects
44:49 that needed to finish so I've been
44:50 working solid for the past two months
44:52 just finishing work but with no pay
44:55 because they've already paid for it and
44:57 no new deposits
44:59 coming in so it's been stressful and
45:01 then so we applied for that all the
45:03 government assistance you know and we
45:05 didn't we in it we just got a lot of the
45:07 other day we're not getting any of it
45:08 really yeah I don't I don't know why I
45:11 mean well we do know why they said that
45:12 it's only for for employees like you
45:16 have to have employees that's the only
45:18 reason that's the only way you can get
45:20 the SBA loans right now and as an a
45:23 self-employed business owner I have
45:25 contract people that work with me not
45:27 employees that's crazy I have a friend
45:29 that doesn't have employees how will you
45:34 get him in touch can I get in touch with
45:35 him yes I want it right who is it I'll
45:39 put you in touch with him okay cool yeah
45:41 so what the letter we got just said that
45:43 the payroll documentation that we
45:46 provided did not support the amount that
45:48 we were claiming meaning I don't know
45:52 but I think we didn't do it right
45:53 because we gave them like like proof
45:56 that we had paid them for our bank
45:58 account but not like payroll we don't
46:00 have we don't have payroll
46:01 yeah there's up their subcontractors
46:02 yeah so we think that's what went wrong
46:05 oh you were trying to get money for your
46:08 subcontractors and for me because we
46:11 went there you can't get money for your
46:12 subcontractors that's probably okay and
46:15 then the Oh MPA the Oregon media
46:18 professionals Association remember that
46:20 I used to be okay we just joined right
46:25 before the pandemic and so then they had
46:27 a class on how to get this government
46:29 assistance for you know most of us media
46:31 makers who are self-employed and the one
46:33 thing that I took away was that as a
46:36 self-employed owner of a company you can
46:38 qualify for paycheck protection program
46:40 as long as you have proof that you take
46:43 a paycheck yeah but we don't have proof
46:46 that we took a paycheck so we just gave
46:47 them our bank account records and that
46:49 didn't work yeah yeah all the more
46:53 reason to be like super tight with your
46:55 records and stuff you know yeah I really
46:58 I really feel like switching to a
47:03 corporation where I get like a paycheck
47:06 has made a huge difference in how I save
47:08 money
47:08 that's cool so you do that yep Oh bring
47:12 it yeah
47:12 pay myself by bimonthly marry and then
47:17 since I'm an employee it's easier to
47:19 keep record of that kind of thing I mean
47:22 you can't do it for contractors because
47:23 it would be like I mean for instance it
47:26 would be like Nike getting funding so
47:30 that it can just pay us to not work you
47:33 know for them yeah that's like so well
47:37 and you work for Nike too and I know
47:38 well first of all it was you and in my
47:41 friend from story gorge Sean O'Connor he
47:46 was a video producer too and both of you
47:49 have been working for large companies
47:51 like he works with REI and other big
47:54 outdoor companies like that and doing
47:57 video work and so he and you have both
47:59 created I think well he created an LLC I
48:02 think what did you create I've an escort
48:05 I had an LLC okay
48:07 and both you and he had told me at one
48:09 point that you were taking owner draw
48:11 paychecks and so I was really moved by
48:14 that but I've never really had the
48:18 motivation to really get that going
48:20 until this and so you don't have to
48:22 convince me anymore I'm definitely gonna
48:23 getting that going yeah it's important
48:28 and so okay so bye on that note we've
48:31 one of the things we've been wondering
48:32 about you is what are you doing now for
48:35 work
48:36 how are you just continuing the same
48:38 work you've been doing or is it changed
48:39 pretty much yeah well I I can't get into
48:45 too many specifics just for safety's
48:47 sake but like I've been doing like very
48:50 pared down shoots kind of like how I
48:52 used to do them yeah
48:54 where there's virtually no one on set
48:57 and so and in a way that if there is
49:04 someone like a stylist there that we're
49:06 staying separate and we don't touch the
49:08 same things and if there's a model there
49:12 like I'm not anywhere near them and so
49:16 it's kind of all sectioned off and since
49:19 I since I have done all the teching
49:21 myself and used to shoot solo and I and
49:25 I understand
49:26 technically very well how to do both
49:29 video and photo just maybe not very very
49:34 not easy to do it to do it all by myself
49:37 yeah like then I've been able to kind of
49:42 keep the regular thing going that way
49:44 pretty stable clients yeah you do and
49:47 you know one of the things that even the
49:49 people that I know in this industry who
49:51 have stable clients is a lot of them are
49:52 more Hollywood oriented and Hollywood's
49:55 just shut down because of not being able
49:57 to figure out how to get back on set so
49:59 that's awesome you almost seem like
50:00 you're leading the way in that that's
50:01 great
50:02 yeah they in fact one of my clients like
50:05 used shoot that I did as a template for
50:08 how to do all shoots so there's like
50:12 screen shots of gloves that's great wow
50:17 that's so cool so you really aren't
50:18 setting an example see that's the kind
50:20 of innovation that you've always shown
50:22 me you're really being innovative in
50:25 this industry right I think that's
50:27 what's so fun about it it's like it
50:28 comes back to also like living off the
50:31 land awful and but on the land it's like
50:34 you you you have to innovate and you
50:38 have to if this doesn't work what else
50:41 is gonna work right what's the most
50:42 efficient way to do this yeah and it's
50:45 just like if you're doing carpentry or
50:46 doing photography just working with your
50:49 camera it's like you understand after a
50:53 while like this is the most efficient
50:55 process but if this breaks here's my
50:58 alternatives that I can do
51:00 okay well it's managing your time it's
51:03 managing your equipment it's
51:04 understanding like replacements or
51:06 additions and when you live in the
51:11 country or you live on your own out in
51:14 the woods your whole life is that way
51:16 it's not just your camera it's not just
51:18 your your job it's like oh we don't have
51:21 any water this is what's wrong how do we
51:25 temporarily fix it until we can really
51:27 fix it and it's managing your whole life
51:31 that way
51:31 yeah and so moving moving that into a
51:36 career for me was a little bit easier
51:40 than
51:40 because I was a I was living in the
51:43 country and I was I was a well driller
51:44 you know that's right that's right I
51:47 forgot you had that background that's a
51:49 very manual laborer background yeah and
51:52 to bring that little bit of mysticism
51:53 into it too I was also a dowser meaning
51:56 that like oh that's wheat we wished
51:59 water where water was underground and uh
52:02 yeah so like what so yeah yes say wait
52:08 we back up you've told me this before
52:10 but like for the sake of the audience
52:12 how does what's the spiritual aspect of
52:15 that well I don't think there is a
52:18 spiritual aspect of it apart from like
52:20 well my I guess my personal spiritual
52:23 belief is that there isn't like any
52:26 magic out there it's just stuff that we
52:28 haven't experienced yet you know it's
52:31 like beautiful for instance like the
52:33 aboriginals are at least you know when
52:36 they're living naturally out on the land
52:40 like our adept at finding water like
52:42 they can find it intuitively
52:45 yeah and we're mostly water like it
52:48 shouldn't be hard for us to key in on
52:50 where there is water in the ground and
52:53 so when you're doing things with sticks
52:56 or willow branches trying to which water
52:58 you really just set some we would use
53:04 brazing rods which are like kind of thin
53:06 copper rods they're like maybe to be
53:09 down like two feet long and you bend
53:10 them like a little gun you know like
53:12 this and you you put them in your hand
53:14 and they come up and they go out and you
53:17 hold them kind of like a gun with your
53:19 thumbs out and then when they would
53:22 cross this way we're walking over a vein
53:25 of water and then we might gonna come
53:27 back out but so you would hold them
53:30 lightly so they can move you know yeah
53:31 like a stiff breeze would push them in
53:34 okay but whoa my it's not like they're
53:37 moving magically like you you may not
53:41 know it but you're allowing them to come
53:43 in and it's because your body is in tune
53:46 with where there's water like I remember
53:49 coming across some huge Springs you know
53:51 like that would just it'd be a dry hill
53:53 full of me
53:54 and you come up on a spring like we did
53:58 one with Kendall Jackson you know that
53:59 winery yes and it was just this hillside
54:04 of maple and then there was like a 600
54:08 gallon a minute
54:09 well head just like spring head coming
54:12 out of the ground scuffing free flow no
54:14 pump just like wow starting a
54:17 decent-sized Creek like right there and
54:19 before he even got to it like you could
54:23 feel it like you know like it felt a
54:26 little cooler yeah but like there was
54:29 this sense of water and that's what I
54:34 think dowsing is you know I've never
54:36 paid attention to that it's like your
54:39 body is obviously in tune to things that
54:42 like you're not always consciously aware
54:44 of and wow you know so okay so it's not
54:48 like okay so you know how okay I'm gonna
54:50 get in a little New Age you hear but you
54:52 know the Ouija board there's two there's
54:55 two very similar it's okay so there's
54:57 two ideas I've heard about that one is
54:58 that it really is spirits or to that
55:00 it's your muscles having micro movements
55:03 and you're actually intuiting you're
55:06 just using intuition and allowing your
55:08 muscles to kind of guide the Ouija board
55:11 and so if you're in touch with anything
55:13 it's just it's happening through
55:15 muscular movement rather than a
55:16 spiritual hand moving it yeah okay yeah
55:24 cool so people would say that's magic
55:29 200 years ago right or not you're like a
55:32 witch
55:33 yeah but then maybe a hundred years from
55:35 now they're gonna be like oh like your
55:38 body is in tune with water like you're
55:41 just moving the sticks a little bit
55:43 unconsciously and and it's like science
55:46 proves spirituality there in a way yeah
55:50 yeah it's like those people so many
55:52 Native people are way more in tune with
55:54 their surroundings and we are and and to
55:57 be able to like I'm sure if you asked an
55:59 Aboriginal like they'd be like well I
56:01 just know it's here because I feel it or
56:04 whatever it might be you know or I know
56:06 that like when I smell this plant in the
56:08 one area that there's probably water and
56:10 they wouldn't even necessarily be
56:13 conscious of the signals yeah it's what
56:17 drives them in their core and they just
56:19 know you know yeah so it's interesting
56:22 too because do you know like those
56:25 things like there's a there 13 when is
56:28 it the 13 tribal elder grandmother's who
56:32 have gone around doing some sharing
56:33 around the world have you heard about
56:34 them there there's 13 grandmother's from
56:37 different tribal cultures across the
56:39 world so they their cultures I've never
56:41 been in contact with each other and the
56:43 thing that's so amazing about them is
56:45 they all share the same wisdom the same
56:47 knowledge base they're tapping into
56:50 something and they all have the same
56:53 thoughts and beliefs and one of the
56:56 things they said together as a
56:57 collective these elder grandmother's
56:59 have now gotten together and traveled
57:01 and one of the things they spoke to I
57:03 think in the late 80s or early 90s
57:05 before cellphones came out is they they
57:08 predicted that we would soon in the very
57:10 near future be able to send our thoughts
57:13 to each other through the air but what
57:15 they were describing with cell phones
57:16 and so at the time we might have thought
57:19 oh that's magic that's weird but now we
57:22 just go oh it's the cellphone so you
57:24 know like and back in the day like if
57:26 you ask somebody a hundred years ago
57:28 about some of the things that we have in
57:31 this world today they would be like
57:32 that's crazy that's know you know so I
57:34 think what you're talking to you about
57:35 the hundred years from now is
57:37 interesting too because one of the
57:39 things that we'll know a hundred years
57:40 ago a hundred years from now that right
57:42 now we consider magic or whatever you
57:45 know yeah yeah for sure yeah I think
57:49 people a lot of time were burnt at the
57:51 stake for being witches when they were
57:52 just a little bit more in tune with
57:54 something I love that and that's so
57:56 relevant to this podcast too because I
57:58 think what I'm trying to do is open
58:00 people up to a little bit of that you
58:02 know that thinking that hey you know a
58:04 lot of these topics are not witchcraft
58:07 actually we're talking about yeah like I
58:10 mean and that's a very practical example
58:11 water witching wow so were you what was
58:15 your percent accuracy on that I wasn't
58:18 very good my the guy that I worked for
58:20 was a lot better than me
58:21 okay and he was good enough that like I
58:24 he stayed in business and when I did my
58:27 own thing I couldn't do it okay you know
58:29 and so yeah that's amazing that somebody
58:33 could just do that in for a living I
58:35 love that people were doing oil dousing
58:40 as well and making a living I don't know
58:43 how much of a living at it as well where
58:45 they would use a pendulum and they would
58:46 kind of like they go up this side of the
58:49 map and get this line and then they'd go
58:52 down this side of the map and get this
58:54 line and find that cross-section you
58:56 know and the pendulum would help them
58:58 know where the yester the know was right
59:00 Wow yeah that's you know that's a tool
59:03 that's used in a lot of new age healing
59:05 stuff so interesting my wife has
59:09 actually used a pendulum before I think
59:10 and you get just like a simple yes or no
59:12 to a question yeah it's very easy to get
59:15 it to go horizontally or circular you
59:18 know like it's it's just micro movement
59:20 so like you said micro muscle micro
59:22 muscle yeah yeah and do you think that's
59:25 kind of similar to what you're dealing
59:27 with with the witching - micro muscle
59:28 yeah I think it's just a tool to to get
59:32 to get you to tell to get your body to
59:35 tell you what what it's feeling it's
59:37 like a must like what are they muscle
59:39 testing have you ever had you have done
59:40 yeah yeah we've been talking about that
59:42 lately uh-huh yeah
59:44 my favorite muscle testing one is this
59:46 and it really works we call I call it
59:48 the fluffy pillow test so I put my hands
59:51 out like this and I have a yes-or-no
59:52 question like should I go to the store
59:54 right now and during the crisis and then
59:56 I'm like okay and I just feel in the
59:58 other my arms drop or if there's like
60:00 kind of like it feels like a fluffy
60:02 pillows floating my hands and if there's
60:04 a fluffy pillow floating my hands that's
60:06 a yes and if they just drop that's a no
60:08 huh totally works what kind of questions
60:11 do you ask besides like grocery store
60:14 stuff you could anything honestly but I
60:16 tend to use it more for like guidance
60:19 for right now just like is this is going
60:22 out yes or no or is you know is buying
60:25 this thing a yes or no or what you know
60:27 just more practical stuff I try not to
60:30 do it like am I gonna earn a million
60:31 dollars because that's
60:33 probably not yet probably not gonna be
60:35 accurate but yeah so Ben I think the the
60:42 cool thing about again tying in to what
60:45 we're talking about the water witching
60:46 really ties in the back to the land is
60:48 that a skill that people could use to
60:49 help them find water on the property
60:51 maybe it'll tell them that's in the
60:54 ground somewhere but it's the real work
60:56 is getting it out of there Oh true right
60:59 drilling a well next right yeah yeah
61:03 that's cool
61:04 and then it you know of course it's like
61:07 Oh everybody gonna move out there and
61:09 drill wells like Oh true that would that
61:13 would affect the water table wouldn't it
61:15 it might yeah well you know another
61:18 thing I think a lot of people are
61:19 practicing the water catchment because
61:21 that's an alternative you know I so
61:24 funny I love the idea of water
61:26 catchments because you know in Tucson
61:27 Arizona we had some friends actually
61:30 think Brad oh what's his name
61:32 can't remember his last name but there's
61:34 this guy Brad who's like this
61:35 permaculture expert and he really
61:38 pioneered water catchment systems that
61:40 are very unique in Tucson Arizona
61:42 because they get like flash floods there
61:44 it like rains really hard a few times a
61:46 year and then the rest of your is like
61:47 super dry oh but they prove that you can
61:50 catch all the water that you need in for
61:52 the year in those flash flooding seasons
61:55 okay and here's larger storage than 50
61:59 55-gallon drums I take it I think so
62:02 yeah and and there's like I think
62:04 they're more like those those huge
62:07 plastic ones that are the size of a room
62:09 you know yeah yeah we used to install a
62:11 lot of those okay and like people can
62:14 they've taught people how to live the
62:16 whole year off of one or two of those
62:18 full and I think you either put them
62:21 next to your house or underground and
62:23 you know you have a pipe coming off your
62:26 roof into those and and I think the
62:29 crazy thing is it was so successful it
62:33 threatened the water municipality and so
62:36 they started making people get permits
62:38 to have those and pay money to have
62:40 those because they were like not making
62:42 money off the water bills anymore
62:46 you think they'd want to like lessen the
62:49 strain on the system
62:50 I know right ooo and then there was
62:52 another thing there was like if your
62:56 water catchment was over a certain size
62:58 they would make it you couldn't get a
63:00 permit because they were claiming that
63:01 you were catching too much of the water
63:03 and it wouldn't go into the water table
63:04 and then they couldn't sell the water
63:06 hmm so you're taking it back from them
63:09 yes you're like taking too much water
63:11 it's like wow this is like something
63:13 that was like a real thing and like a
63:16 threat and so it works you know water
63:18 catchment so I think that's a good I
63:21 think you know honestly for me my dream
63:23 would be to build a living roof and
63:25 catch water from their living roof
63:27 because the one thing that I love about
63:30 water is that it's been filtered through
63:32 the ground and it grabs a lot of
63:34 minerals after come falling out of the
63:36 sky but water catchment off of a roof
63:39 what's it catching bird poop like I
63:41 don't know if that's enough minerals so
63:43 I I think the idea of a living roof is
63:45 cool because at least you're still
63:46 having the water seep through some earth
63:49 and then through the pipes and then into
63:52 your can here ya know if I ever do it
63:54 that's what I would do Oh that'd be cool
64:01 I like that the idea for me would be to
64:04 build like a hobbit hole home so
64:06 underground and then your your roof
64:07 would be the hill and it's built into
64:09 you yeah my wife's parents look down and
64:12 see ranch well they just moved up here
64:14 that they have a neighbor who has a
64:16 house like that it's like kind of built
64:18 into the hillside and they have a living
64:19 roof and there's like deer walking
64:21 around on their roof oh my god like
64:23 peeking into their skylight gosh maybe
64:27 like so it'd be weird to see us a deer
64:29 up like looking down on you I love it
64:33 that's really cool
64:34 oh you're getting might see now these
64:36 are my these are the talks where my
64:37 heart gets explosively happy alternative
64:41 natural housing oh man I love it
64:44 that's so cool that you are into that
64:45 too yeah it's read a book called a
64:48 pattern language oh god I've heard of
64:51 that now I'm gonna type it into Amazon
64:52 right now yeah that's a really good one
64:54 you know Kyle's awesome right now -
64:56 really oh thank you for saying Powell's
64:59 they have a I recommend that I think
65:02 you'd enjoy it it's a thick book but
65:06 it's really easy to skim because it's
65:10 got like highlighted kind of broken down
65:15 descriptions on each page kind of about
65:17 what it's saying and it starts out
65:20 there's actually two books there's a
65:23 timeless way of building and then
65:24 there's a pattern language a pattern
65:26 language which I prefer a lot more it's
65:29 a little bit less esoteric okay and it's
65:33 really just about like community and Wow
65:36 then it gets into building and then it
65:38 gets into just like aesthetic building
65:41 for humans you know I think you'd really
65:45 enjoy it and it it has a lot to do with
65:49 community and this is the community part
65:55 kind of like the barn raising idea yeah
65:58 it is a little bit it's not talking
65:59 about like bringing people together to
66:01 date community it's like this is what
66:02 would support a healthy community and
66:04 the aura talks about like having like in
66:06 a city structure like having like
66:08 fingers of land that come through the
66:10 city you know or easily access land and
66:15 oh and that would help migratory animals
66:17 too right
66:18 like being able to walk through the city
66:19 blocked by a wall of asphalt very
66:24 European oh that's cool well you know
66:27 that's interesting that you say that Ben
66:29 thank you for sharing that yeah when we
66:31 flew over Europe into Paris and then out
66:33 of Paris I think we flew out of Paris
66:36 over England so we got the at a very low
66:38 altitude see both France and England it
66:42 was amazing to see the pattern of the
66:44 land and the cities and the development
66:46 and how different it is in America well
66:50 okay so in America you have these
66:51 massive open spaces that are just like
66:54 almost States wide and then in between
66:56 the states you have a few mega mega
66:58 cities right and then the only thing you
67:00 see in between is like farmland was like
67:02 one house on it and the poor lonely
67:04 farmer right or maybe maybe a tiny
67:07 little community but it's still built
67:08 like a city in in Europe and you might
67:12 have seen this from there
67:13 like you see little villages everywhere
67:16 and it's very rare to see a big city
67:19 like you've got Paris or you've got
67:21 London and then the rest of the country
67:23 is villages and the villages are not too
67:26 far apart you know there may be at the
67:30 most like a day's walk but like I'd say
67:33 most of them are even closer than that
67:34 they're like probably you know hour to
67:36 two hour walk and and you can tell they
67:38 were built like that from when people
67:40 actually had to walk to the neighboring
67:41 village you know and then everything in
67:44 between his beautiful land or for like
67:46 strips of forest or a river or you know
67:49 and it's just like so different than
67:51 America and it really it makes sense you
67:54 know yeah yeah feels much more human
67:56 yeah much more manageable when we were
67:59 in Portugal a couple years ago we took
68:03 the train up and it was just like there
68:05 was there was a couple on there who
68:08 looked like we kind of assumed they were
68:10 visiting their kids you know and like
68:13 from the southern part of Portugal up to
68:15 the north and it's just so easy you know
68:18 they they just like wheeled their
68:20 suitcases onto the trains that there got
68:22 off and they were there wasn't like wow
68:24 it was cheap it was easy it was fast
68:27 yeah it was a real human way of travel
68:30 mm-hmm and yeah people like really
68:36 figured it out there over the years and
68:39 and then they were there cities were
68:40 built around walking and horses not
68:44 1950s cars the rain go down the highway
68:47 to the mall rank right yeah I mean it's
68:53 funny you mentioned Portugal because
68:55 right around the time you were in
68:57 Portugal I'd watched that Netflix show
69:00 its beautiful homes or something like
69:02 that the world's most amazing homes and
69:06 so one of the episodes was all about
69:07 homes in Portugal oh cool yeah it's
69:11 beautiful you might enjoy it and it's
69:12 talk about eco homes I think one of the
69:14 ones they did there was like a hobbit
69:17 ish style home in the forest what's the
69:20 show called oh gosh I'm gonna look it up
69:22 right now it's like the world's most
69:24 amazing homes I think on Netflix
69:26 and there's a Portugal episode each
69:29 episode is a different country and and
69:33 they feature one home the world's most
69:35 extraordinary homes it's what it's
69:38 called okay and so yeah there's a let's
69:41 see episode season 2 episode 1 is
69:43 Portugal
69:44 so I'm putting I'm building a little
69:46 list of links that including your show
69:47 notes by the way okay
69:49 so we'll put some of these things in
69:50 dice if you have a water witching book
69:52 we should put that in there I wish I had
69:54 I gotta get this book back from a friend
69:57 of mine that it was really cool it was
69:59 like someone in the 70s sorry this is
70:03 super off track it's their crack home in
70:05 mendel someone in the 70s had
70:08 interviewed all these old-time
70:12 bootleggers who used to like run whiskey
70:15 down to the Bay Area Wow and interviewed
70:18 all these new wheat growers so it's like
70:20 these two bootleggers of like different
70:24 generations wow that's cool
70:28 you you know you live in a very
70:30 fascinating part of the country to me
70:31 you know I went on that bike ride for
70:33 this movie right here within reach where
70:36 Oh remember that project I bicycle 6,500
70:41 miles around the u.s. to visit a hundred
70:43 Cecina member you talking about that
70:44 yeah well we started in Willets at the
70:48 solar living Institute oh yeah and we
70:51 interviewed the founder of that which is
70:54 God what's the name Oh include it in
70:59 this show denotes yeah John John there
71:02 you go John instead - I gotta give him
71:07 props right now founder John Shaffer
71:13 John Shaffer good job so he's kind of
71:16 one of those people he but he was the
71:18 original bootlegger of solar panels so
71:21 he bought solar panels from NASA because
71:24 they were living on the land but they
71:26 you know coming from San Francisco I
71:28 think I drilled as well by the way did
71:31 you really did that's awesome so you
71:35 know him yep oh yeah he's good friends
71:37 with a lot of my friends down there of
71:38 course of course he's actually
71:40 have one friend who's good friends with
71:43 us sim and with John oh my god
71:46 okay so then tell me if this story is
71:48 correct because what I remember might be
71:50 different one than what's actually
71:51 correct but what I remember him telling
71:54 us is the reason solar Living Institute
71:56 real Goods even was founded was because
71:59 they had gone back to the land to just
72:01 like you've been talking about what the
72:03 people in Willets I think he came from
72:05 San Francisco I could be wrong but um he
72:09 was um no it wasn't San Francisco I
72:11 don't know oh you don't know okay but he
72:13 he had been like he'd really liked
72:15 baseball and watching it on TV and they
72:17 really liked ice cream and while they
72:19 were building their little community
72:21 land situation experiment they had
72:27 craving real real cravings like
72:29 withdrawals of baseball on TV and ice
72:33 cream so he and his wife figured out
72:35 they they took the battery from their
72:37 beetle at their bug and hooked it up to
72:41 their VW bug and they hooked it up to
72:43 their TV and were able to watch games
72:46 that way but their battery kept dying
72:47 and they had to deal with all that so he
72:50 you know he just literally contacted
72:53 NASA and said can I buy a solar panel
72:55 from the space stuff that you do that I
72:58 was like in the 1970s and so they sold
73:01 they sold him one and he was able to
73:03 like keep his battery charged and so he
73:05 was so blown away by that that he asked
73:07 him if he could start selling them and
73:10 he worked out something with them where
73:12 they would sell him the old space solar
73:16 panels or something Wow and then he
73:18 basically helped pioneer the
73:20 consumer-driven solar panel market
73:24 because of these withdrawals he was yeah
73:28 that's great god he has a really nice
73:30 spread now down there cuz he sold that
73:32 business a long time ago they moved down
73:35 to the hotland
73:37 yeah the he opens up a really big one
73:39 down at Auckland yeah that's the solar
73:41 living Institute and real good now it's
73:44 like kind of like weed dispensary and
73:47 solar is it real sound there yeah he's
73:50 got a great spread down there that's
73:52 great of course it's weed dispensary
73:54 two big things down there well and tying
73:57 it back to your bootlegger thing like
74:00 like you know those those kinds of
74:02 careers were feeding people's addictions
74:04 or withdrawals right cuz during during
74:06 those times they couldn't we couldn't
74:08 have weed or we couldn't have couldn't
74:10 have your back to lane you can't have
74:12 your ice cream yeah it's interesting
74:14 what did you learn from these people
74:16 that you interviewed
74:18 hi I'm trying to remember I think a lot
74:21 of it was like no it was to really like
74:25 got to get that book back that's funny
74:29 oh by the way we just discovered a new
74:32 drink that you might be fascinated by so
74:34 you like those ultra waters the spritzer
74:37 yeah yeah so we just got a Costco
74:39 membership to help us save money for
74:41 groceries and man that place is fun they
74:47 sell these huge I just posted it to
74:49 Facebook yesterday but they sell these
74:50 huge Irish cream bottles for like super
74:52 fruits I think it's like 9 bucks for
74:54 like a ton like a month's worth right
74:56 yeah and we did it for coffee but then
74:59 we were like the other night we didn't
75:00 want to drink coffee at night but we
75:01 wanted the Irish cream and we didn't
75:03 have anything to put in it but we had
75:05 the spritzer so I was like let's try it
75:06 oh my god it's so amazing really yeah we
75:10 ought to do that huh
75:11 mix a shot of Irish cream with about
75:15 half a glass of spritzer Oh refreshing
75:18 like creamy
75:21 yeah it's try it we call it our we are
75:24 Costco Irish cream Italian soda what'd
75:32 you think all right you should start
75:34 maybe a little Portland's booth like
75:37 cart yes for those things I love it yeah
75:41 oh that would be great people will love
75:42 them it's a great summer drink too
75:47 because you know that you think of Irish
75:48 cream is like curling up with a
75:49 fireplace with the coffee but if you
75:52 want Irish cream but you're hot this is
75:54 a good yeah I like it I like it
75:58 right on Ben well okay so what do you
76:00 what it what keeps you busy these days
76:01 are you shooting mostly are you editing
76:03 Leslie
76:05 oh um well we're I'm actually in the
76:09 middle of a shoot right now well thanks
76:12 for taking time for this yeah yeah we
76:14 holiday yeah yeah but let's see i i've
76:21 been remodeling the house I um
76:24 I started just cleaning at the basement
76:27 because uh we want to move like kind of
76:31 an office down there and so office and
76:36 like the washer dryer we have like a you
76:39 know pantry that kind of thing
76:40 hey the driver will keep you warm down
76:42 there I remember you asking how to keep
76:43 it warm down there yeah well what I did
76:46 was I I I pulled everything down it was
76:50 a total mess like they're growing weed
76:52 and stuff here at one point it was just
76:54 like the electrical is like a bunch of
76:55 like meth riddled monkeys did electrical
76:58 downstairs it was just stupid well so
77:02 how'd you fixin that I could be a fire
77:03 hazard
77:04 oh god yeah seriously was anyway so then
77:09 I earthquake retrofit did the basement
77:10 it was just like straps you know you put
77:12 I which is that was a lot of work well
77:14 then I thought well shit the furnace is
77:17 gonna go out at some point we're
77:18 thinking about probably renting this
77:20 place out soon so another year so I
77:23 installed a mini split you know like the
77:27 on wall kind of things yeah yes those
77:34 are nice actually so I put in one of
77:36 those systems and then well yeah it's
77:39 just been like we're gonna hopefully get
77:41 sheetrock up there where do you think
77:43 you'll go next like your triplex maybe
77:45 before the land or the land you're not
77:48 sure yet are you my mom's getting older
77:53 too so you kind of keep that in
77:55 consideration will you absorb her into
77:57 your life and your living yeah cool oh I
78:01 bet she's a sweetheart I actually been
78:02 thinking about her and your dad during
78:05 this interview because I'm like you know
78:06 you just made them sound like wonderful
78:08 people raised you my mom mostly raised
78:12 me yeah okay my dad passed away when I
78:14 was down here but oh yeah you would you
78:16 would take her yeah she's hardcore pagan
78:19 oh I love old pagan lady I probably dig
78:22 having a conversation with her
78:26 well I should get going pretty soon here
78:28 sounds good yeah our audience has been
78:30 patient with me and you just babbling
78:32 through all these topics but I enjoy
78:35 these kind of deep dive conversations
78:37 with you Ben and I hope that our
78:39 audience gets something out of it too
78:40 cool oh this wasn't live was it well we
78:44 recorded it oh yeah it's definitely not
78:46 live oh my gosh because I have to edit
78:48 anything that would be particularly not
78:51 public worthy speaking of which you can
78:54 email me if there is anything you think
78:57 okay okay
78:59 but Ben thank you so much for taking
79:00 time as always you were very inspiring
79:03 to me yeah likewise my friend I get
79:06 inspired by you it's like you're your
79:08 creativity and sense of like connection
79:12 think really really meaningful oh thank
79:16 you Ben yeah I was telling Constance
79:18 last night that or this morning that
79:20 you're just like the kind of friend that
79:22 I need in my life because you're very
79:23 mellow and you calm you bring me down to
79:26 a more rounded place and you're just
79:29 funny as heck and yeah oh we didn't even
79:31 get to experience your humor today
79:34 Ben's funny yeah well say hi to your
79:42 wife hope we get to meet her someday
79:44 soon yeah we should do that we're
79:47 talking about we bumped into some jazz
79:48 musicians that were like playing
79:50 practicing across the street in the yard
79:52 you know social distancing and they're
79:54 like yeah we'll do like garden parties
79:58 if you know everybody's staying safe and
80:00 oh my god let us know and we would love
80:02 to do that with you guys yeah I try to
80:04 figure out a way to to do like something
80:06 say we'll bring our masks and hand
80:08 sanitizer and stay 60 parts all right
80:13 buddy all right thank you yeah have a
80:15 great day you too all right
